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Surprising? How do you mean? They are 2 different loads; could that be the cause for surprise? Comparing the 2 sets of data might be a source of confusion. They can't be compared since I have no data with each firing the same loads.

I also should have added that the first velocity is farther downrange than stated in the results. Why? the .22s didn't have enough sound to trigger the internal mic'. I had to use doppler triggering, where the bullet is seen by the radar beam somewhere down range, and the data collection starts with that as the zero range. The true velocities will also be slightly higher due to that. How far down range did the unit see the bullet? I have no way of knowing that since the beam is invisible.
 

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Well since we’re comparing the braced CP33 to a braced Charger I’ll throw in my experiences.
Both are reliable & accurate (same type reflex optic on both) but the Charger will run just about any hollow point with the 10 round flush mag, not so much with the BX-15 or 25 mags. For the CP33 I pretty much stick to round nose copper washed loads.
But in terms of size & weight, not even close. The Charger actually feels like a compact rifle and carries a lot of mass in the barrel. While the CP33 is quite a bit more ‘cramped’ it’s a featherweight.
Out of the box the CP33 has the better trigger and IMHO needs nothing. I can write pages on better Ruger trigger options but they all cost $$$. If aftermarket is your thing 10/22 options can make you go broke.

bonus points to my GSG110 round drum, it’s as reliable as a BX-25 mag in my Charger and easy to load.
 

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Surprising the 5 inch barrel would be so close in velocity as the 10 inch.
(y):)
Yeah, I think that was just a coincidence. In order to have a valid comparison I needed to shoot the same loads but swap guns. But I didn't feel the need to do that since it wasn't a barrel length comparison. I just wanted to make sure the .22 that I take along on walks, the CP-33, wasn't pushing bullets at some ridiculously low velocity. I tested the Charger simply because my hand was within inches of it in the safe and it only took minutes to include it since everything was set up.

Maybe I'll set up again and get that other set of data.
 

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Just the fact that it can be used as stock, I think would be enough. Much like if you put a wood stock on the back of the gun but never shouldered it, it would still be considered a stock and an SBR at the end of the two rods is a joining part that can be shouldered

Also if you modify an arm brace in any way it is no longer considered an arm brace and then considered a stock.
You would end up breaking or making this brace loose if it was shouldered like regular rifles...
 

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Sorry it took so long to respond.
Upfront this will be very long post.

First I would sell both my ruger 1022's.
One is set up with 16 inch threaded barrel, tac solution left hand charging receiver with the BFS iii 22c-1 binary trigger in a badger bullpup stock.

The other is a 18 inch threaded barrel in a tac solutions left hand charging receiver with OEM polymer sporter stock and excellent 2 lb trigger and primary arms acss 22lr illuminated rectile.

Ruger charger.
Mine was 10 inch barrel in polymer stock with fs1913 adaptor and a sb tactical polymer folding stock. I had used both the 2lb trigger and the binary trigger in it.
While ruger 1022 have a super reputation and are generally over built for longevity they are not without their own quirks.
Like any other 22lr you would need to find out what rounds will work reliably with your particular set up.
Mags : 10 rounds usually uber reliable, I have found 25 round butler creek to be just as reliable. The 15 round ruger OEM again very reliable. The bx 25 may need a bit of tweaking. For instance there is a you tube video of using a 22lr case as a bushing internally in the mags to help feeding. I have found this really works . I have done it to my 4 x bx 25 double mags. Then if you are still having issues with the bx or 10 round mags. there is another video of using tape to help tighten the mag to mag well fit. I havent had to go that far. I have had good sucess with mad dog 50 round drums and gsg 110 round drums. 1022 mags are large bulky to stow and awkward at times.

The charger it self is heavy compared to the cp33 but lighter than full size 1022.
I found it not as comfortable to stand free hand while shooting it . It just was a bit nose heavy. The fs1913 sb polymer folding stock/arm brace was great for making the packadge compact. It wasn't that great for shooting . The weight of the charger would cause the brace to flex while shooting . Now you could still be accurate enough with it but not super accurate. if that makes sense. If you go the way of the charger. I would recommend the aluminum brace or the triangle brace. It is aluminum as well.
They would provide a much more stable base to shoot with and increase accuracy, weight and cost.
Is the charger a viable home or sd option? Yes it can be. but for me the bulk, weight, bulky mags etc. Wasnt.
I figured if I was going to have to deal with some of its draw backs the i might as well have a bullpup. So I went back to the badger bullpup. This is a very compact, lighter than charger and very stable platform to shoot with. I feel it swings into action with have to unfold a stock and costs much less than the fs1913 adaptor, polymer stock, and sd tactical braces combined. When I use the binary trigger I can keep the rapid shots in an much tighter controlled group. The charger seemed to be a bit more uncontrolled. While the charger 10.inch barrel does well with velocity (refer to ballistics by the inch).I wanted to stay with 16 inch barrel and not have to file for sbr.
The badger bullpup is 165.00 while other bullpups are 200.00 or more and require much more work to take down. Badger uses same take down screw and 2 screws for trigger cover.
The badgers trigger can be adjusted to provide decent trigger response compared to most. Yes a bit spongy but no where near as bad as the others.

Bottom line. The charger is ok but there are more practical much less expensive ways to achieve the same or better results. I didnt find the charger experience to be any where near as gratifying as the bullpup. Will it be reliable? yea provided you find ammo reliablity . It should run like a sewing machine and provide good fun at the range. It will and could be used as an SD fun once uber reliability was achieved.

CP33:
I picked one up, well because it had a 33 round mag and I just had to try it. I have several different kel tecs and have had no bad experiences with them so what the heck.

I got it home and thought well thays the ugliest thing I had ever seen and didnt expect great things from it. My serial number is m0095. Yes 95th in the market.

I took it to the range and my opinion was radically change by its accuracy and performance. Wow! It rocked.
I immediately thought as, many others did. this thing needs to be braced. So I picked up the fs1913 adaptor and the sb polymer brace. I was able to flip brace around so it would be right side folding.
Took it to the range and again I was wowed with its accuracy and performance. man it was like shooting a laser. Loved it.
Mags were a pain to load until the American nested loader came along. What a life saver. I was thinking mag loading to be too much of a PIA and considered selling it.
Next I was having some feeding issues. Not many but enough to look for a solution. I saw all the mods but never really felt they solved the problem. They were reminiscent of the pmr30 problems and solutions.

When I came across the Mcarbo mag latch upgrade it solved all my feeding issues.
Now.my cp33 runs like a raped ape and with the +17 mag extensions. 50 round mags no problems.
I run thunderbolts through it everytime all the time with no issues. It seems to stay cleaner than my other 22lrs.
Upgrades. Well there isn't really anything that can be done other than Mcabo parts i.e. flat trigger and spring kit. Yes there are some things that in my opinion are bling for bling sake. Aside from the thumb ledge but then it keeps the cp33 from being holstered.
It's long sight radius makes for a great combination with the William's fire sights. Then the already incorporated pic rail top and bottom are perfect for anything you want to mount. A red dot would be fun but the existing sights are functional enough for me at the moment. Plus it comes supressor ready.
With the sb tactical brace folded to the right I could holster the cp33 and with a bit of practice could deploy it quickly into action.

The one thing the cp33 lags behind the charger is velocity performance.

5 inch versus 10 inch barrel.

Although the cp33 does play well with supressors. It doesn't skip a beat with reliability until you try to use sub sonic. But then most short barrel 22lrs have the same issue. The barrel length doesn't get the 22 round up to super sonic speeds befow it exist. So the thinderbolt at 1250 fps is probably leaving the barrel at 1100 fps or there about. Now this is nice. you can use super sonic ammo and get good suppression.

The braced cp33 shoulders quickly swings side to side very fast and gets on target with stability and accuracy.
Plus with the polymer sd brace it doesn't flex any where near as the charger.

The cp33 like the charger with the right ammo can be uber reliable. The cp33 is much lighter, More compact , very accurate with or without red dot, its mags 50 are light compact easy to stow and carry and deploy. Yea the heal release of the cp33 needs to become a part of your manual of arms training. No big deal in my mind.

There really isnt much more to say about the cp33 as it comes almost as a complete out of the box ready weapon.

Which would i look to as a go to sd weapon. Well if both were proven to be uber reliable than hands down the cp33.
You cant beat its speed and ability to be brought into action quickly. Its lower cost of any upgrades. Its magazine compactness, light weight and capacity. Its accuracy at range or defensive snap shooting.

I saw you mention something about the farrow tech. Dont do it. The sb tactical brace is just as good and you still wont have to file sbr. You have a better cheek weld with the sb tactical.

I am sure I am missing about the positives of the cp33 but that's all I could think of right now.

Personally I went back to stock configuration as it is just that good in my opinion. Brace is really not necessary. If I want more accurate long range shooting then I differ to my ruger in the badge bullpup. If I want one hole style target shooting then my cz 457 or even my henry lever gun.

I sure wish kel tec would come out with the cp33 rifle. It would simplify my 22lr situation. Lol!!!! Who am I kidding.
I just went the range today with the kel tec p17 and ruger lcpII. I put the red dot on the p17 and it was a game changer in the accuracy department. Sure glad I did.

I know this has been long post and i hope not very boring. but it is what i have experienced and distilled to form my 22lr consideration between the two guns.


Oh and longevity. Well ruger 1022 has been around since the dawn of time.

The cp33 is proving itself as we speak. From what I am seeing it will be around and prove it's own reputation in time.
I really appreciate this thorough reply man! Seriously helpful. Think I'm going to keep my CP33 in pistol form, it's crazy accurate as is with a dot. Good to know about the p17 if I ever go that route!
 

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When I assembled my Charger SBR there was no factory braced option so I had to learn as I went along building it from parts from various sources and trying this and that.

As long as the CP33 is reliable I don't know why it wouldn't be OK for SD with the right ammo. I use the Charger in Steel Challenge and it's fast. I don't have the braced CP33 SBRed yet and as a braced handgun it's "illegal" to use in competition. But I shot it once for "score" that didn't count and it was faster. It's also quite a bit lighter. SC is a timed event that requires mediocre accuracy (just hit the steel) and I see no difference between it and the Charger. Due to the takedown feature of the Charger it's not a tack driver but it's suitable for it's purpose. In a SD situation no one in their right mind would ever take a long shot and either one is definitely minute of dirtbag at 30 feet with extremely rapid aimed fire.

With a BX mag the Charger gains lots of mass toward the muzzle, noticeably slowing it down. I never noticed that with a fully loaded 33 round CP33 mag. So today I have banned BX mags from my personal competition and only use 15 and 10 round mags. My shooting is faster for that change.

I need to walk for my health and when I started I began carrying, slung, the Charger. The biggest threat where I live are rabid animals so a .22 is sufficient. But due to the weight I always knew it was there. After putting together the CP33 rig I can carry it slung and I forget it's there. It's that lightweight.

This may read like a copout, but either platform will do what you want. The Charger has a longer barrel, so more velocity using the same ammo. I was going to suggest the BX mags to you, but you already nixed that due to laws. But a BX mag is significantly larger than the CP33 mag which is also much smaller. The weight of the Charger, in theory will have slightly better "holding" qualities than the CP33. Think of holding as being muzzle weight. It dampens movement that we all experience. But both guns are light and "holding" isn't either of their strong points. They're both designed to be fast and they are definitely that. I think they'd be good on running rabbits or some such. It's incredible how fast they will pump out lead when that's needed. Again in SC, the ping of the bullet hitting the steel can't always be heard. When I'd miss the sound I'd unleash a flood of aimed bullets and then move on. It might have added 1/2 a second to my time but most of that was waiting for the sound and reacting to it. Now I just trust my sight picture and don't do any of that, but my point is that both can launch a lot of sufficiently aimed bullets in a very short time. When I'd do that I'd ask the RO if the first bullet hit and he always told me it did, "and so did the rest", so I just stopped wasting ammo and started getting lower times.

One over the other? The 10/22 has been around a very long time and is extremely reliable even when dirty. The CP33 maybe not so reliable under those conditions, and .22s are very dirty burning, so it can't be escaped. The solution is simple, just clean it. I never tried suppressor ammo in the Charger, so I don't know if it'll work. I do have a lightweight bolt for it should I ever want to do that. A clean and freshly lubed CP33 will function reliably with the caterpillar fart loads that are very quiet and will until it gets crudded up due to the nature of .22 rimfire.

Heck, I don't know which is better, that's why I have them both and I'm keeping both. When I was waiting for my tax stamp to come back I had a SB Tac' brace on the Charger and that I definitely did not like. The weight distribution was screwey, too much weight to the rear. Maybe a Blade brace would have been better, but I knew it was temporary so I never bought one for it. Then my tax stamp arrived and I put on the VLTOR stock which I had in parts, it came alive and I haven't explored it further. I suppose I can though.
(The pitter patter of feet is heard receding and returning) OK I put a blade on it and I think it would work fine. I took it off of a .300BLK where it works fine for me so the recoil of a .22 wouldn't be an issue (for me). It certainly didn't have the balance issues of the SB brace that came off of it and that I didn't like. A blade is also much less $ than the SB. I think it was 1/3 the cost. Maybe less if you don't get an adjustable blade.

I have loaned the Charger out to other competitors when their guns weren't working and everyone so far has liked it and it just runs and runs without malfunctioning. It could be lots worse.

That's all I have Firebrand. Did I answer your questions?
Yes and thank you for this insight, this really helps. Not sure why I don't see any posts about the KelTec PLR22, that is something i've had my eye on for a while but they are hard to find, way overpriced when I do and they don't seem to be talked about. In my opinion they seem like a fine .22lr firearm that could be braced with more success than the CP33 honestly.
 

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Yes and thank you for this insight, this really helps. Not sure why I don't see any posts about the KelTec PLR22, that is something i've had my eye on for a while but they are hard to find, way overpriced when I do and they don't seem to be talked about. In my opinion they seem like a fine .22lr firearm that could be braced with more success than the CP33 honestly.
Frankly I've never seen one in the flesh, and the PLR22 was totally off my radar. But what I do see has lots of extra plastic and anything added also adds weight. Would it make for a good braced handgun or even a SBR? Probably. But one thing I noticed when I was just on the KT site, they thread the barrel but suggest not suppressing it for some reason that escaped my quick recce. The CP33 is threaded for suppressor use and that's acknowledged on the site, or it was. I don't know if that would be important for you.

I think KT is missing a huge chunk of business by not making some of their handguns easily braced. Maybe they know something I don't. But for the CP33 if it wasn't for other shops making parts mine would still be unbraced. Does anyone even make adapters for the PLR22?

At one time Ruger had no clue about the Charger being braced. But they caught on and I just saw 2 models that come equipt with what's needed to attach a brace. It's my belief based on not much except discussion I hear from around the country that KT is hard pressed to keep up with production of what they presently have without adding more. Ruger is massive and adding more is no big deal for them.
 

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Frankly I've never seen one in the flesh, and the PLR22 was totally off my radar. But what I do see has lots of extra plastic and anything added also adds weight. Would it make for a good braced handgun or even a SBR? Probably. But one thing I noticed when I was just on the KT site, they thread the barrel but suggest not suppressing it for some reason that escaped my quick recce. The CP33 is threaded for suppressor use and that's acknowledged on the site, or it was. I don't know if that would be important for you.

I think KT is missing a huge chunk of business by not making some of their handguns easily braced. Maybe they know something I don't. But for the CP33 if it wasn't for other shops making parts mine would still be unbraced. Does anyone even make adapters for the PLR22?

At one time Ruger had no clue about the Charger being braced. But they caught on and I just saw 2 models that come equipt with what's needed to attach a brace. It's my belief based on not much except discussion I hear from around the country that KT is hard pressed to keep up with production of what they presently have without adding more. Ruger is massive and adding more is no big deal for them.
Heard that!

Yeah, I am leaning towards the 22 PC Charger regardless of the weight, just a cool compact-10/22 basically. I'm still into the thought of that platform, having a 10/22 that I converted into PS90 clone that assures me that the PC Charger will be SOLID in most aspects. No such thing as a perfect gun really. Already have a bunch of BX mags so it make sense for the interchangeable factor alone! The Ruger PC Charger model I am looking at does have the adapter already like you mentioned!

They have a takedown model w/10" barrel (takedown model) but I want the non-takedown model which is barreled in 8" more compact and still threaded.

Good of you to mention the non-recommend by KT on the CAN.

Like silverback mentioned, if KT started pumping out a carbine version of CP33 I'd totally be on board. I'll be scrapping the PLR 22 idea, hopefully I can score a Ruger 22 PC Charger (specific model) at a decent price, I see them going for $600+ (NO WAY)... How much did you pay for yours if you don't mind me asking?
 

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If I could remember how much I paid I'd tell you but I just can't remember. It was before all of the craziness though (3 years ago? At least that.) so it wasn't an inflated price. OK, so I tracked down when I first started to use it for RFRO division in Steel Challenge. By Sept '18 it was in use by me. So that meant I had to have bought it at least 6 months prior at the very least, because all of my tax stamps have taken 6 months to come back to me. So yes, prices were normal back then. I still don't remember what I paid. $400ish? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on that being correct.

I don't know if I mentioned it but my goal was to see just how small a package I could fit a rifle into so I bought the takedown. The scope is the longest part. One of these days if I get the time I need to make a "tool roll" for it.
 
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