[silverback]

Set up for rabid animal protection when the wife and I go for walks. It feels like a feather when slung.
TandemKross extended safety (I don't remember what they call it)
REHV Arms adapter w/ SB 1913 brace
Cheap sling and Para cord to attach it.
Dead Air Ghost 45M can in K configuration
HK 3 lug QD mount
Holosun 507c on an inexpensive and ultralight UTG riser. Amarok Tac' cover in orange. Yes, the open sights can still be used.



Edit: To give an idea just how lightweight this is... Every time I pick this gun up I'm struck by just how light it is. So last night I got out the Ruger Charger SBR whose build goal was to see just how small of a rifle I could build it had nothing to do with weight. Comparing the 2 the Charger actually felt heavy. Of course it isn't but in comparison it did. Without the can or ammo it weighs 2# 13 oz as pictured and the can weighs another 10 oz.

This is why I was hounding keltec to come out with 10.5 inch barrel cp33. It would be super nice.

I opted to keep my ruger charger and add a franklin armory binary trigger for it. Super nice. Now I just need to decide
Whether to keep the cp33 and just use the p17 as a aide arm companion.

Really keltec is missing out on a huge market.

 

[BJK]

This is why I was hounding keltec to come out with 10.5 inch barrel cp33. <snip>
Really keltec is missing out on a huge market.

It would use the same assembly "line", if indeed t is an assembly line as the current CP33. So it's really a no brainer. Either they don't want to invest the $ in barrels or they have all they can handle now. Could be both, but I bet it's the latter.

Doesn't really bear on your post, but when I use my Charger for Steel Challenge I've overheard the RO telling someone that it's the loudest .22 he's ever heard. I guessing the pressure is close to peak when the bullet comes out of the barrel.

 

[Chris King]

Set up for rabid animal protection when the wife and I go for walks. It feels like a feather when slung.
TandemKross extended safety (I don't remember what they call it)
REHV Arms adapter w/ SB 1913 brace
Cheap sling and Para cord to attach it.
Dead Air Ghost 45M can in K configuration
HK 3 lug QD mount
Holosun 507c on an inexpensive and ultralight UTG riser. Amarok Tac' cover in orange. Yes, the open sights can still be used.



Edit: To give an idea just how lightweight this is... Every time I pick this gun up I'm struck by just how light it is. So last night I got out the Ruger Charger SBR whose build goal was to see just how small of a rifle I could build it had nothing to do with weight. Comparing the 2 the Charger actually felt heavy. Of course it isn't but in comparison it did. Without the can or ammo it weighs 2# 13 oz as pictured and the can weighs another 10 oz.

I have the UTG T02 riser also and the base interferes with the sight line. Did you modify the riser?

 

[BJK]

My sights just sorta clear the base. Yes, the base is kind of in the way, but I can tell where the sights are since the interference is so minimal. The base could be lower to better use the open sights, but I don't intend to shoot 'chucks at 100 yards so I can live with the sight picture I have.

I would be leery about trimming the base since it's a key structural part of the mount. Maybe go to a shorter riser and add a QD base if you must have open sight access? I regularly remove the red dot sights on my competition guns and they return to zero. It might be a problem if they were sighted in for long range, but out to 35 yards it's no big deal. I think you'd be OK with a lever QD mount and they come off in a heartbeat.

 

[CP33newb]

Set up for rabid animal protection when the wife and I go for walks. It feels like a feather when slung.
TandemKross extended safety (I don't remember what they call it)
REHV Arms adapter w/ SB 1913 brace
Cheap sling and Para cord to attach it.
Dead Air Ghost 45M can in K configuration
HK 3 lug QD mount
Holosun 507c on an inexpensive and ultralight UTG riser. Amarok Tac' cover in orange. Yes, the open sights can still be used.



Edit: To give an idea just how lightweight this is... Every time I pick this gun up I'm struck by just how light it is. So last night I got out the Ruger Charger SBR whose build goal was to see just how small of a rifle I could build it had nothing to do with weight. Comparing the 2 the Charger actually felt heavy. Of course it isn't but in comparison it did. Without the can or ammo it weighs 2# 13 oz as pictured and the can weighs another 10 oz.

I have to say your cp33 is the best looking setup I have seen so far!

I only have the extended mag and a flash hider. I do have a rifle optic I put on but I prefer thestock sights.

 

[CP33newb]

Like I said I just have a flash hider, and extended mags.

 

[Labadie101]

 

[silverback]

Looks like a little sub rifle. Cool!!!!

See this is what I am talking about we need a cmr version of the cp33.

 

[BJK]

View attachment 55251

What brace is that? My eyes tell me they have never seen it before.

 

[FireBrand]

Looks like a little sub rifle. Cool!!!!

See this is what I am talking about we need a cmr version of the cp33.

That would be badass, I kind of want the PLR 22 actually. But debating between that and the Ruger 22 PC Charger model that has brace adapter.

 

[BJK]

That would be badass, I kind of want the PLR 22 actually. But debating between that and the Ruger 22 PC Charger model that has brace adapter.

I have a Ruger .22 Charger in SBR form and the weight difference between (not the PLR) the CP33 with an arm brace and what's seen below is night and day. In comparison the Ruger is a noticeably heavier gun even though I built mine for lightweight in mind while using many parts I hand on hand. But the major driving force was how small could I make it when broken down. I don't know if that helps you or not, it's just a factoid.

 

[silverback]

I had a charger for same reasons. The kel tec rifle version of the cp33 would weigh less and provide greater mag capacity. Imagine a small compact light weight 22lr with 50 round mags.

The 50 round mags for the ruger are huge and add tons more weight.

Even the double 25 bx mags ate heavy an bulky.

The kel tec cp33 mags are light compact and one could carry more easily if needed.

I sold my ruger charger and went back to a bull pup design that allowed for 16 inch barrel. Badger bullpup is a smart design. Installs with same take down screw. Very stable and effective. It really shines with the BFSiii c-1 binary trigger.

I also rebuilt an old 1022 for target fun.

If kel tec would ever come out wit a rifle version of the cp33 I would sell those rugers in a heart beat.

What could be more practical. A 22lr rifle that share magazines with a great and accurate target gun.

Oh well I have been sending and calling in kel tec since the cp33 came out about a rifle version. It was obvious to me once I shot the cp33 that a rifle version would be perfect. They say there is no interest. I must be the only cp33 who desires such a beast.

A man can dream. Lol

 

[silverback]

That is another sb tactical brace.

TF1913™ | SB Tactical

SB Tactical TF1913™. We design, develop and manufacture accessories for firearms including the original pistol stabilization brace.

www.sb-tactical.com

 

[FireBrand]

I have a Ruger .22 Charger in SBR form and the weight difference between (not the PLR) the CP33 with an arm brace and what's seen below is night and day. In comparison the Ruger is a noticeably heavier gun even though I built mine for lightweight in mind while using many parts I hand on hand. But the major driving force was how small could I make it when broken down. I don't know if that helps you or not, it's just a factoid.

Thanks for that, anything related to these guns is helpful. I just got my CP33 two weeks ago and have been enjoying it in pistol form... All i've done is slapped an MCarbo grip and topped it off with a Romeo5 dot. Really want to Brace it but also want to use it in pistol form interchangeably. So far the only configuration to make that possible is the Farrowtech which makes me cringe due to the countless negative reviews on that setup.

The Ruger 22 PC Charger as SBR version seems more robust, more lengthy and more heavy which makes me feel it would be more viable as a SD option than the CP33 SBR setup. Do you find any significant differences comparing performance of the two? Accuracy in distances/Malfunctions/Random quirks?

I know weight is a big issue for some people so some would be drawn to the CP33 braced because of the low-weight and some to Ruger because it is more "heavy-duty"...

Do you prefer one more than the other overall or would you say they are significantly different platforms that serve different purposes/needs? If you could choose one, which would it be and why?

IU kjnow I just threw up a lot of question marks but would love to pick you brain.

 

[FireBrand]

I had a charger for same reasons. The kel tec rifle version of the cp33 would weigh less and provide greater mag capacity. Imagine a small compact light weight 22lr with 50 round mags.

The 50 round mags for the ruger are huge and add tons more weight.

Even the double 25 bx mags ate heavy an bulky.

The kel tec cp33 mags are light compact and one could carry more easily if needed.

I sold my ruger charger and went back to a bull pup design that allowed for 16 inch barrel. Badger bullpup is a smart design. Installs with same take down screw. Very stable and effective. It really shines with the BFSiii c-1 binary trigger.

I also rebuilt an old 1022 for target fun.

If kel tec would ever come out wit a rifle version of the cp33 I would sell those rugers in a heart beat.

What could be more practical. A 22lr rifle that share magazines with a great and accurate target gun.

Oh well I have been sending and calling in kel tec since the cp33 came out about a rifle version. It was obvious to me once I shot the cp33 that a rifle version would be perfect. They say there is no interest. I must be the only cp33 who desires such a beast.

A man can dream. Lol

Thanks for that info, I actually converted a 10/22 into a bullpup as well (PS90 clone from High Tower Armory) and have been digging that conversion stock.

I know the 22 charger is basically a downsized 10/22 and will be heavier with those awkward BX magazines but I just realized that these damn mags are not so kosher in my parts so if I have to use something in SD I want to make sure it's totally kosher so mags with 15 or less is ideal. Lame but ass must be covered if sh*t gets hectic.

Yea, the CP33 in carbine form would be the winner and I may move to another state at some point so I am very interested in that platform. I guess i'll go ahead and bug/nag Keltec through email voicing demand because a CMR30 that chambers .22lr would seriously be the coolest frickin thing and I can't believe nobody else is on board!?


QUESTIONS: Was your .22 PC Charger braced with the 8" barrel?

You said you sold your Charger, what are the other rugers you said you'd sell if the CP33 was released as carbine?

 

[BJK]

Thanks for that, anything related to these guns is helpful. I just got my CP33 two weeks ago and have been enjoying it in pistol form... All i've done is slapped an MCarbo grip and topped it off with a Romeo5 dot. Really want to Brace it but also want to use it in pistol form interchangeably. So far the only configuration to make that possible is the Farrowtech which makes me cringe due to the countless negative reviews on that setup.

The Ruger 22 PC Charger as SBR version seems more robust, more lengthy and more heavy which makes me feel it would be more viable as a SD option than the CP33 SBR setup. Do you find any significant differences comparing performance of the two? Accuracy in distances/Malfunctions/Random quirks?

I know weight is a big issue for some people so some would be drawn to the CP33 braced because of the low-weight and some to Ruger because it is more "heavy-duty"...

Do you prefer one more than the other overall or would you say they are significantly different platforms that serve different purposes/needs? If you could choose one, which would it be and why?

IU kjnow I just threw up a lot of question marks but would love to pick you brain.

When I assembled my Charger SBR there was no factory braced option so I had to learn as I went along building it from parts from various sources and trying this and that.

As long as the CP33 is reliable I don't know why it wouldn't be OK for SD with the right ammo. I use the Charger in Steel Challenge and it's fast. I don't have the braced CP33 SBRed yet and as a braced handgun it's "illegal" to use in competition. But I shot it once for "score" that didn't count and it was faster. It's also quite a bit lighter. SC is a timed event that requires mediocre accuracy (just hit the steel) and I see no difference between it and the Charger. Due to the takedown feature of the Charger it's not a tack driver but it's suitable for it's purpose. In a SD situation no one in their right mind would ever take a long shot and either one is definitely minute of dirtbag at 30 feet with extremely rapid aimed fire.

With a BX mag the Charger gains lots of mass toward the muzzle, noticeably slowing it down. I never noticed that with a fully loaded 33 round CP33 mag. So today I have banned BX mags from my personal competition and only use 15 and 10 round mags. My shooting is faster for that change.

I need to walk for my health and when I started I began carrying, slung, the Charger. The biggest threat where I live are rabid animals so a .22 is sufficient. But due to the weight I always knew it was there. After putting together the CP33 rig I can carry it slung and I forget it's there. It's that lightweight.

This may read like a copout, but either platform will do what you want. The Charger has a longer barrel, so more velocity using the same ammo. I was going to suggest the BX mags to you, but you already nixed that due to laws. But a BX mag is significantly larger than the CP33 mag which is also much smaller. The weight of the Charger, in theory will have slightly better "holding" qualities than the CP33. Think of holding as being muzzle weight. It dampens movement that we all experience. But both guns are light and "holding" isn't either of their strong points. They're both designed to be fast and they are definitely that. I think they'd be good on running rabbits or some such. It's incredible how fast they will pump out lead when that's needed. Again in SC, the ping of the bullet hitting the steel can't always be heard. When I'd miss the sound I'd unleash a flood of aimed bullets and then move on. It might have added 1/2 a second to my time but most of that was waiting for the sound and reacting to it. Now I just trust my sight picture and don't do any of that, but my point is that both can launch a lot of sufficiently aimed bullets in a very short time. When I'd do that I'd ask the RO if the first bullet hit and he always told me it did, "and so did the rest", so I just stopped wasting ammo and started getting lower times.

One over the other? The 10/22 has been around a very long time and is extremely reliable even when dirty. The CP33 maybe not so reliable under those conditions, and .22s are very dirty burning, so it can't be escaped. The solution is simple, just clean it. I never tried suppressor ammo in the Charger, so I don't know if it'll work. I do have a lightweight bolt for it should I ever want to do that. A clean and freshly lubed CP33 will function reliably with the caterpillar fart loads that are very quiet and will until it gets crudded up due to the nature of .22 rimfire.

Heck, I don't know which is better, that's why I have them both and I'm keeping both. When I was waiting for my tax stamp to come back I had a SB Tac' brace on the Charger and that I definitely did not like. The weight distribution was screwey, too much weight to the rear. Maybe a Blade brace would have been better, but I knew it was temporary so I never bought one for it. Then my tax stamp arrived and I put on the VLTOR stock which I had in parts, it came alive and I haven't explored it further. I suppose I can though.
(The pitter patter of feet is heard receding and returning) OK I put a blade on it and I think it would work fine. I took it off of a .300BLK where it works fine for me so the recoil of a .22 wouldn't be an issue (for me). It certainly didn't have the balance issues of the SB brace that came off of it and that I didn't like. A blade is also much less $ than the SB. I think it was 1/3 the cost. Maybe less if you don't get an adjustable blade.

I have loaned the Charger out to other competitors when their guns weren't working and everyone so far has liked it and it just runs and runs without malfunctioning. It could be lots worse.

That's all I have Firebrand. Did I answer your questions?

 

[Brett Baker]

It would use the same assembly "line", if indeed t is an assembly line as the current CP33. So it's really a no brainer. Either they don't want to invest the $ in barrels or they have all they can handle now. Could be both, but I bet it's the latter.

Doesn't really bear on your post, but when I use my Charger for Steel Challenge I've overheard the RO telling someone that it's the loudest .22 he's ever heard. I guessing the pressure is close to peak when the bullet comes out of the barrel.

I remember reading an article in the 90s about custom 10/22s. The featured company did some experiments and found 13" barrels produced the highest velocity.

 

[silverback]

Sorry it took so long to respond.
Upfront this will be very long post.

First I would sell both my ruger 1022's.
One is set up with 16 inch threaded barrel, tac solution left hand charging receiver with the BFS iii 22c-1 binary trigger in a badger bullpup stock.

The other is a 18 inch threaded barrel in a tac solutions left hand charging receiver with OEM polymer sporter stock and excellent 2 lb trigger and primary arms acss 22lr illuminated rectile.

Ruger charger.
Mine was 10 inch barrel in polymer stock with fs1913 adaptor and a sb tactical polymer folding stock. I had used both the 2lb trigger and the binary trigger in it.
While ruger 1022 have a super reputation and are generally over built for longevity they are not without their own quirks.
Like any other 22lr you would need to find out what rounds will work reliably with your particular set up.
Mags : 10 rounds usually uber reliable, I have found 25 round butler creek to be just as reliable. The 15 round ruger OEM again very reliable. The bx 25 may need a bit of tweaking. For instance there is a you tube video of using a 22lr case as a bushing internally in the mags to help feeding. I have found this really works . I have done it to my 4 x bx 25 double mags. Then if you are still having issues with the bx or 10 round mags. there is another video of using tape to help tighten the mag to mag well fit. I havent had to go that far. I have had good sucess with mad dog 50 round drums and gsg 110 round drums. 1022 mags are large bulky to stow and awkward at times.

The charger it self is heavy compared to the cp33 but lighter than full size 1022.
I found it not as comfortable to stand free hand while shooting it . It just was a bit nose heavy. The fs1913 sb polymer folding stock/arm brace was great for making the packadge compact. It wasn't that great for shooting . The weight of the charger would cause the brace to flex while shooting . Now you could still be accurate enough with it but not super accurate. if that makes sense. If you go the way of the charger. I would recommend the aluminum brace or the triangle brace. It is aluminum as well.
They would provide a much more stable base to shoot with and increase accuracy, weight and cost.
Is the charger a viable home or sd option? Yes it can be. but for me the bulk, weight, bulky mags etc. Wasnt.
I figured if I was going to have to deal with some of its draw backs the i might as well have a bullpup. So I went back to the badger bullpup. This is a very compact, lighter than charger and very stable platform to shoot with. I feel it swings into action with have to unfold a stock and costs much less than the fs1913 adaptor, polymer stock, and sd tactical braces combined. When I use the binary trigger I can keep the rapid shots in an much tighter controlled group. The charger seemed to be a bit more uncontrolled. While the charger 10.inch barrel does well with velocity (refer to ballistics by the inch).I wanted to stay with 16 inch barrel and not have to file for sbr.
The badger bullpup is 165.00 while other bullpups are 200.00 or more and require much more work to take down. Badger uses same take down screw and 2 screws for trigger cover.
The badgers trigger can be adjusted to provide decent trigger response compared to most. Yes a bit spongy but no where near as bad as the others.

Bottom line. The charger is ok but there are more practical much less expensive ways to achieve the same or better results. I didnt find the charger experience to be any where near as gratifying as the bullpup. Will it be reliable? yea provided you find ammo reliablity . It should run like a sewing machine and provide good fun at the range. It will and could be used as an SD fun once uber reliability was achieved.

CP33:
I picked one up, well because it had a 33 round mag and I just had to try it. I have several different kel tecs and have had no bad experiences with them so what the heck.

I got it home and thought well thays the ugliest thing I had ever seen and didnt expect great things from it. My serial number is m0095. Yes 95th in the market.

I took it to the range and my opinion was radically change by its accuracy and performance. Wow! It rocked.
I immediately thought as, many others did. this thing needs to be braced. So I picked up the fs1913 adaptor and the sb polymer brace. I was able to flip brace around so it would be right side folding.
Took it to the range and again I was wowed with its accuracy and performance. man it was like shooting a laser. Loved it.
Mags were a pain to load until the American nested loader came along. What a life saver. I was thinking mag loading to be too much of a PIA and considered selling it.
Next I was having some feeding issues. Not many but enough to look for a solution. I saw all the mods but never really felt they solved the problem. They were reminiscent of the pmr30 problems and solutions.

When I came across the Mcarbo mag latch upgrade it solved all my feeding issues.
Now.my cp33 runs like a raped ape and with the +17 mag extensions. 50 round mags no problems.
I run thunderbolts through it everytime all the time with no issues. It seems to stay cleaner than my other 22lrs.
Upgrades. Well there isn't really anything that can be done other than Mcabo parts i.e. flat trigger and spring kit. Yes there are some things that in my opinion are bling for bling sake. Aside from the thumb ledge but then it keeps the cp33 from being holstered.
It's long sight radius makes for a great combination with the William's fire sights. Then the already incorporated pic rail top and bottom are perfect for anything you want to mount. A red dot would be fun but the existing sights are functional enough for me at the moment. Plus it comes supressor ready.
With the sb tactical brace folded to the right I could holster the cp33 and with a bit of practice could deploy it quickly into action.

The one thing the cp33 lags behind the charger is velocity performance.

5 inch versus 10 inch barrel.

Although the cp33 does play well with supressors. It doesn't skip a beat with reliability until you try to use sub sonic. But then most short barrel 22lrs have the same issue. The barrel length doesn't get the 22 round up to super sonic speeds befow it exist. So the thinderbolt at 1250 fps is probably leaving the barrel at 1100 fps or there about. Now this is nice. you can use super sonic ammo and get good suppression.

The braced cp33 shoulders quickly swings side to side very fast and gets on target with stability and accuracy.
Plus with the polymer sd brace it doesn't flex any where near as the charger.

The cp33 like the charger with the right ammo can be uber reliable. The cp33 is much lighter, More compact , very accurate with or without red dot, its mags 50 are light compact easy to stow and carry and deploy. Yea the heal release of the cp33 needs to become a part of your manual of arms training. No big deal in my mind.

There really isnt much more to say about the cp33 as it comes almost as a complete out of the box ready weapon.

Which would i look to as a go to sd weapon. Well if both were proven to be uber reliable than hands down the cp33.
You cant beat its speed and ability to be brought into action quickly. Its lower cost of any upgrades. Its magazine compactness, light weight and capacity. Its accuracy at range or defensive snap shooting.

I saw you mention something about the farrow tech. Dont do it. The sb tactical brace is just as good and you still wont have to file sbr. You have a better cheek weld with the sb tactical.

I am sure I am missing about the positives of the cp33 but that's all I could think of right now.

Personally I went back to stock configuration as it is just that good in my opinion. Brace is really not necessary. If I want more accurate long range shooting then I differ to my ruger in the badge bullpup. If I want one hole style target shooting then my cz 457 or even my henry lever gun.

I sure wish kel tec would come out with the cp33 rifle. It would simplify my 22lr situation. Lol!!!! Who am I kidding.
I just went the range today with the kel tec p17 and ruger lcpII. I put the red dot on the p17 and it was a game changer in the accuracy department. Sure glad I did.

I know this has been long post and i hope not very boring. but it is what i have experienced and distilled to form my 22lr consideration between the two guns.


Oh and longevity. Well ruger 1022 has been around since the dawn of time.

The cp33 is proving itself as we speak. From what I am seeing it will be around and prove it's own reputation in time.

 

[BJK]

Not boring at all. Very thorough.

 

[BJK]

OK, I'd been meaning to do this for quite some time. I had time yesterday. Velocity from the 2 different barrel lengths... OK so this is not at all scientific since it's also 2 different ammo types. The 10" Charger is shooting Fed' Auto Match, and the CP33 is shooting 50 year old CCI copper washed HPs. But I wanted to see just what they were doing out of the short barrels. Data collected with a LabRadar.

If it's to small to be read (it is for me), copy the link address for each and plug it into your browser to see a larger version.

10" Charger: The box claims 1200fps for it.


CP33: