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Sub2000 Gen 3: S&W FPC Killer?

37K views 237 replies 32 participants last post by  IamScotticus  
#1 ·
NEW S2K with rotating forend allowing folding with an optic (it does give up integral sights, though) and other improvements: pity the multi-mag capability isn't standard.
SUB2000 GEN3 - KelTec (keltecweapons.com)
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#4 ·
I was hoping for 2 things out of this. 1 a rotating fore end, or some other easy way to mount an optic, and 2 an improved trigger, and/or trigger pull. They did that, AND added an ambi charging handle.
I was always kinda interested in the Sub2000.... but never enough to buy one. With these updates, I'm 100% on board.
 
#6 ·
Damn... the new version solves the optic problem! But I got my Sub2K just a year ago. Dammit. It's great, but it sucks (for me).
 
#7 · (Edited)
KelTec said:
Introducing the 9mm SUB2000™ GEN3. The most significant new twist? Literally, the single twist-and-fold motion of the patent-pending rotating forend. Release the barrel assembly with a lever, twist the forend in either direction and snap it into place.

Other GEN3 updates include many “quality of life” improvements such as an aluminum trigger, lightened trigger pull, and an ambidextrous bolt hold-open. Plus a redesigned operating handle with a new easy-pullback action and yes, it still takes Glock mags.

The biggest update is the rotating forend that comes standard on every SUB2000 GEN3. Mounted optics and accessories now easily rotate out of the way for folding. Getting back in action is easy with a simple, singlehanded maneuver that maintains a seamless, quick deployment. No need for additional accessories.

The action of the SUB2000 now features a redesigned operating handle for added comfort, a lightened action for easy racking, and an ambidextrous bolt hold-open.

The GEN3 has a new aluminum trigger and redesigned trigger mechanics making for a lightened, 5 lb trigger pull. This updated trigger provides the user with more precise feedback for a clean, isolated trigger pull, translating into increased accuracy and follow-up shots.
Well that's something: We can now mount an optic & fold the rifle, the trigger guard is aluminum, and the trigger isn't horrible! It looks like KelTec finally listened to their customers. I expect it still kicks like a mule, but that should be a solvable problem with the MCarbo bolt handle and a Limbsaver (Odin Works) pad. I expect that KelTec needed to up their game once the S&W came out.

I had two Sub2000s one OE and one extensively modified with MCarbo parts. Sold both. I'm a sucker for KelTec, but for some strange reason I'm in no big hurry to throw down for the Gen 3.

Larry

PS: For those who missed the Odin Works discussion: https://www.thektog.org/threads/stock-modification-the-odin-works-zulu.272244/page-5#post-2523570
 
#13 ·
Firearm’s fail of the year.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Gen. 3 requires both hands to unfold it (42 sec.):
IMO, it is disadvantage.
Gen. 2 is more tactical.
 
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#54 ·
Gen. 3 requires both hands to unfold it
So did the Gen 1. One hand to disengage the latch and the other to unfold the rifle. Only difference is that the Gen 3 the second hand apparently also twists the forearm 90 degrees as well. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
#33 · (Edited)
Am I the crazy one here for liking this?
Here and other places online I mostly only see yawns or open contempt, but I think this is doing a number of things really well by fixing a large number of issues that people had with the gen2.
For example, let's look at how much it would cost to install all the fixes from MCarbo that this new version made obsolete.

1. Heavy and bulky optic mount $150 - now obsolete.
2. Rear tactical folding sights $80 - either unnecessary with an optic, or mount your own better sights on the pic rail.
3. Improved charging handle $40 - unnecessary, Gen3 handle was redesigned AND with a lighter pull. Although, the longer 2-finger Mcarbo handle may be to your liking.
4. Aluminum trigger and trigger guard $70 - The gen3 trigger guard still appears to be plastic, but the trigger is now aluminum. So, 50% obsolete.
5. Trigger spring kit $35 - obsolete, Gen3 trigger pull is said to be improved.
6. Performance trigger bar $35 - not sure if KT upgraded this. possibly obsolete.
7. KT Sub2k Armorers Wrench $20 - get this if you're going to install all this stuff.

That's a lot of stuff that doesn't require replacement any more, and if we're just talking about the optic mount and the trigger, that's over $250 of upgrades right there.

In my view, a Gen2 is not going to be cheap enough to buy and upgrade to be on par with a Gen3 going for $450-500.
 
#34 ·
Am I the crazy one here for liking this?
Here and other places online I mostly only see yawns or open contempt, but I think this is doing a number of things really well by fixing a large number of issues that people had with the gen2.
For example, let's look at how much it would cost to install all the fixes from MCarbo that this new version made obsolete.

1. Heavy and bulky optic mount $150 - now obsolete.
2. Rear tactical folding sights $80 - either unnecessary with an optic, or mount your own better sights on the pic rail.
3. Improved charging handle $40 - unnecessary. Although, the longer 2-finger one may be to your liking.
4. Aluminum trigger and trigger guard $70 - The gen3 trigger guard still appears to be plastic, but the trigger is now aluminum. So, 50% obsolete.
5. Trigger spring kit $35 - obsolete.
6. Performance trigger bar $35 - not sure if KT upgraded this. possibly obsolete.
7. KT Sub2k Armorers Wrench $20 - get this if you're going to install all this stuff.

That's a lot of stuff that doesn't require replacement any more, and if we're just talking about the optic mount and the trigger, that's over $250 of upgrades right there.

In my view, a Gen2 is not going to be cheap enough to buy and upgrade to be on par with a Gen3 going for $450-500.
Nice overview! A lot to offer to a first-time S2K buyer.:)
 
#35 ·
IMO, backup sights are must have.
 
#41 ·
Nice writeup by BBC. I can't help but wonder why they didn't make the multi-mag feature standard.
While I'm happy with my (still brand new) Gen 2, I really want to look over a Gen 3. I DO hope they sell like hotcakes--I like function over flash.
I just put some pic rail for a light on mine, and aside from lots of ammo and a can down the road, I'm not in a hurry to put more stuff on it!
One more off-topic question: Why no Sub22??
 
#42 ·
Nice writeup by BBC. I can't help but wonder why they didn't make the multi-mag feature standard.
While I'm happy with my (still brand new) Gen 2, I really want to look over a Gen 3. I DO hope they sell like hotcakes--I like function over flash.
I just put some pic rail for a light on mine, and aside from lots of ammo and a can down the road, I'm not in a hurry to put more stuff on it!
One more off-topic question: Why no Sub22??
Sub 22 would be an interesting one. They already have the SU22... and there are other light / foldy / break down survival 22's already on the market.
 
#44 · (Edited)
I took my Gen 2s and installed all the MCARBO innards, including the stainless steel feed ramp and hammer bushing. However, I installed Red Lion folding front sights and forend to get 360 degree rotation capability. At the time, the Red Lion forend and the MCARBO optic mount were the same price. Finally, I modified the stock rear sights to let them be folded down when the rifle is open. This gets the irons out of the way entirely when using the red dot, but keeps them handy for backup. The current Red Lion forend is M-LOK compatible. I got mine just before those came out. Indeed, MCARBO came out with an improved aluminum trigger guard just after I got mine. The older style functions well, but the new version looks better.

Kel-Tec appears to have addressed many of the issues and annoyances of the previous generations. They're only listing a 9 mm Glock version at this time. In today's market, it's hard to go wrong chambering it in 9 mm. I wonder if they will come out with a .40 S&W. The Glock version has a unique grip angle, but is likely the single most popular version, so they produced it first. The multi-mag version is probably coming soon.

Edited to add: I spent more on the upgrades than I spent on the rifles. So the Gen 3 is an improvement as firydeth points out. I wonder if Kel-Tec is going to offer an upgrade deal like they did before, where your Gen 1 plus $150 got you a new Gen 2 with a similar finish and an "A" added to your old serial number.

buzzsaw
 
#45 ·
Ah ha! I didn’t think of the angle difference between Glocks and other pistols as the reason for incompatibility. With that in mind, starting out with Glock mag versions makes a lot of sense.