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Keltec RFB 24 inch: 3 MOA average; good enougg as a DMR?

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bullpup dmr rfb
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#21 ·
I made the mistake of selling a whole bunch of Austrian surplus FAL mags about 10 years ago. Trust me when I say that I'm kicking myself for it. It's quite difficult finding good ones now for a reasonable price.

It's wishful thinking on my part, but if KT were to redesign the RFB as a gen 3, it should have a more robust gas system and a DPMS/AR magazine well.
 
#23 ·
It's a pressure bleed type system rather than direct regulation of gas that hits the piston.

There have been many instances including my own experiences where the rifle will still cycle and lock back on an empty mag with the regulator knob completely removed.

Essentially, there's no way to completely control gas flow. You can only somewhat regulate how much pressure is bled off. This is not good when running hot loads or a suppressor.

And I have a feeling that at least on my rifle, the barrel gas port is slightly larger than needs to be. So you have too much gas entering the system that can be effectively bled off to prevent cycling the bolt too quickly. This is when you start to see dented case mouths, weird jams, etc.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Confirmed (you guys helped confirm it too!) Accurate enough as a DMR. Forget the Hornady Precision Hunter .308 ELD-X that I got up to 3 MOA with. I did testing and rezeroing with Federal Premium Gold Medal 168 Grain Sierra Matchking .308.

I fired 4-5 shot groups and the worst I got was 2 MOA and the best was easily sub MOA. This seems to contradict the advice of using lighter bullets but perhaps the twist rate is different on the 24 inch model and the longer barrel may help?
 

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#26 ·
Sardinelauncher said:
Confirmed (you guys helped confirm it too!) Accurate enough as a DMR. Forget the Hornady Precision Hunter .308 ELD-X that I got up to 3 MOA with. I did testing and rezeroing with Federal Premium Gold Medal 168 Grain Sierra Matchking .308.

I fired 4-5 shot groups and the worst I got was 2 MOA and the best was easily sub MOA. This seems to contradict the advice of using lighter bullets but perhaps the twist rate is different on the 24 inch model and the longer barrel may help?
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Bullet weight isn't the only factor as you've so discovered. Consistency between each round in my mind is more important. The FGMM 168gr SMKs are pricey but much more consistent than hunting or plinking loads as verified through my chronograph. With those rounds, I consistently shoot sub to half MOA groups out of my P-308. Best 5 shot group I ever got out of my semi auto POF was 0.447" using those bullets.

With the the RFB, if you can find 145gr boat tails loaded to the same precision, can probably shrink your group a bit more if you do your job behind the trigger and it isn't too windy. The lighter pills stabilize a little better from the slow RFB barrel than the heavier ones.

BTW, you can also try the Magtech Sniper 308 which in my testing is almost equivalent to the FGMM at 2/3 the cost. They also use 168gr Sierra Match King bullets. I usually pick them up for 40 dollars for a box of 50. Best 5 shot group out of those was 0.554".
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#28 ·
odinforever2000 said:
Magtec sniper is what I use on my Rfb with a 3x optic. My targets are in the previous page and what prompted the op to retest for accuracy.
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Somehow your photo isn't loading in Tapatalk but I read that you averaged 1.6 MOA with a 3X prism. That's really good considering the low magnification. Have you considered retesting with a more powerful scope to see if you can wring out the last bit of performance from your RFB?
 
#31 · (Edited)
So if mine shoots moa or less..I basically recreated the ops experiment..Except not as I'm running a Gen1.

1.5 With a 3x Prism is fine for what I do I'm also not interested in changing out the Burris 3x32 for something larger as it ruins my space guns looks and how I intend to use

Ill be at the range this weekend anyways with a new brake (Titan SJC..Previous was the King Comp and before the the M4-79) to see my POI change and to confirm the previous 1.6ish moa groups. They might shrink..They might not. I am very happy with that level of accuracy.

Chad from keltec has been saying these rifles are capable of Moa or better..Who am I to argue.
 
#32 ·
I am looking to buy one of these since I like my RDB so much. I really wish it took Magpul AR10 mags and I think the accuracy would be much improved if they went with the standard 1x10 twist. Hopefully they will have a gen 3 soon that might have some improvements.
 
#33 · (Edited)
TwiztidS4 said:
I am looking to buy one of these since I like my RDB so much. I really wish it took Magpul AR10 mags and I think the accuracy would be much improved if they went with the standard 1x10 twist. Hopefully they will have a gen 3 soon that might have some improvements.
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The Ar 10 mags are physically bigger than the Fal mags.(I was hoping to make an adapter but that would only work if the Fal mag was the same size or bigger,which it's not to an Ar10mag.)

KELTEC would have to launch a completely retool for a different lower for Rfb.Since that contains all the parts that makes the gun fire..I cant imagine them doing that soon. A lower redesign would cost Keltec and given is around 15,000 of these made since 2008, they would need a strong market for the update.
Keep in mind when this rifle launched, the most commonly available mag was the Fal mag..Which worked for me as that's what I had a lot of.

They might upscale the Rdb to 308 and It will probably be ar10 mag compatible..But again..I cant are that happening soon either.

Chad (from Keltec) was talking about Keltec testing a 1:10 twist 20inch bbl,but it's been put on the back burner..*grumbles to self*

I don't see it being "much" more accurate..The Desert Tech Mdr and K&M M17 308 are 1:10 and have similar accuracy to the Rfb (which is 1:11) the previously mentioned bullpup rifles cost more,weigh more and have shorter barrels. The Tavor7 is a 1:12 (and has the same downsides as the other 2 new commercial bullpups.).

If we had a more commercial throat in the chamber for the Rfb we might see slightly smaller groups but..I mean as it stands,You get alot of rifle for the cost compared to its 3 Vastly more expensive competitors..
 
#34 ·
Found an article which better explains the poor choice in twist rate and gas design of the RFB here: http://emptormaven.com/2011/03/kel-tec-rfb-308-bullpup/

My findings seen to back up the reviewers assertions.

For a gen 3, I'd be fine if they could fix the gas system and twist rate to stabilize heavier subsonic rounds with a suppressor. I could live with the FAL magazine.
 
#36 ·
I have a gen 2 gas system in my RFB. I even bought the suppressor piston. Unfortunately the way the gen 2 gas system functions is exactly the same as the gen 1 in that it's a pressure bleed-off system rather than actually regulating gas flow to the piston.

Even with the suppressor piston, the RFB is still slightly overgassed with the gas regulator knob completely removed. No major function issues but brass is still coming out with dented case necks.

I understand why KT went this route. The design is similar to that employed by the FAL and the amount of adjustability for various loads is good. But, the execution is left wanting for various reasons I've mentioned before.
 
#37 ·
Based on other peoples testing i've read as well as my own. It seems to me the RFB likes projectiles around the 168gr weight range. That said with a good loading it does pretty damn good with 147s too. I've managed just under moa groups regularly with hirtenberger surplus on my carbine length RFB

also most people claim it's not them, but it probably is. Shooting a bullpup accurately is a little more difficult and takes some time to get used to compared to a conventional rifle.
 
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