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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, so I have had the Keltec RFB with the 24 inch barrel since August of this year and it was hard finding the ammo that shoots well for it. I tried all sorts of walmart rounds, steel case ammo, and eventually I zeroes it in at 100 yards in prone position with the Hornady Precision Hunter .308 ELD-X with my best groups being 1.75 MOA with that ammo and on worse average about 3 MOA but can hit under 3 MOA fairly consistently. I don’t think it’s entirely my shooting as the blame since I can consistently hit sub MOA with my bolt actions.

My main question is, would 3 MOA be good enough as a Designated Marksman Rifle? I got this gun mainly as a DMR project as I never want a semi auto rifle that is not a bullpup. It has to be a bullpup. Thanks for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Just a note, the scope I have on the RFB is a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 FFP. Holds zero well and take take the recoil. I also have a tanker 2 style muzzle brake on the RFB if that makes a big difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I wouldn't want a DMR that exceeds 2 MOA. At 3 MOA, you're looking at an 18" target deviation at 600 yards.

The RFB has a slow twist rate and doesn't really like much over 150gr. Try a lighter bullet.
I tried some 145 grain Barnaul, 150 grain Federal Powershoks and got probably 4 MOA and lots of flyers. Also with the 145 grain Barnaul, I’d get some vertical string groups. 18 inches of deviation at 600 yards, that’s around the average width of a human shaped torso, right...not to mention that it’s smaller than the average height as well.
 

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Vertical stringing might be breathing induced. It's not easy shooting the RFB well from a bench.

As for lighter pills, the Russian stuff you mentioned isn't great when it comes to consistency. The RFB would benefit most from hand loads, but that's just my opinion.

Some guys claim 1 MOA out of their RFB but I've never seen that level of performance out of mine. I have a POF P308 that shoots half MOA using 168gr SMKs. I might get 1.5 to 2 MOA using the same stuff out of the RFB but it's not as easy.

I've given up trying to use the RFB for longer range shooting for that reason plus ergonomics.

And yes about the 18", but try hitting that target while it's moving. A foot and a half is huge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Interesting. Yeah I’ve never seen anyone do a 1000 yard shot with one by anyone and I was hoping to do something like that with my RFB. I dolled it up to be a DMR after all. Maybe I was exaggerating with the “3 MOA” stuff as I do get that 1.75 MOA I was talking about fairly frequently but the group just seems to open up more and more after every shot. I made the mistake by claiming that this RFB of mine was a sub MOA gun but that was just we 3 shot groups. 5 shots prove more than 3 so I go with 5 shots now.

So you really wouldn’t consider 3 MOA as DMR? What about an acceptable accuracy of 3 MOA as a DMR?
 

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No. Most squad issued rifles are already in the 3+ MOA range. If my memory is accurate, DMRs are generally 2 MOA or better. In turn, sniper systems are typically 1 to sub-MOA guns.

To me, the RFB would serve well as a close combat urban warfare system. Or perhaps in places with heavy foliage. The 308 would cut through obstacles a lot better than 5.56. Red dot or low magnified optics only.

My RFB has a 5x prism on it now which I use a lot with a Griffin Optimus suppressor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think it is DMR worthy after all and nice shooting especially with just a 3x prism. I guess I guess I overestimated this gun’s group spread and rounded to 3 MOA but on average for me, it shoots probably a little over 2 MOA and I do occasionally get that 1.75 MOA group. Maybe this isn’t the best ammo for this gun but this Hornady Precision Hunter 178 gr ELD-X seems to at least have practical accuracy for my RFB I have it zeroed from prone position and I may experiment with other ammo but I won’t mess with my zero.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I forgot to mention that I shot these from the bench and the point of impact rises about 4 inches when shooting from bench and is zeroed exactly from prone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I made sure the foregrip was consistent on the sandbag on bench rest the exact same way in prone. With this exact same ammo, same thing happens with my Savage 10 TR .308 but it’s not as bad with other brands of ammo. I swear up and down that I watched the harmonics, marksmanship fundamentals etc.

this never happens with my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt action, .338 Lapua, my Ruger american rifle 7.63x39 when I switch from prone to bench rest.
 

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I only have 4 years experience with the 18" RFB.
I shoot 165gr Tula steel case to 1 to 1.5 moa at 100 yds.
I don't consider the RFB a "precision" rifle.
It is excellant as a close range, 100 to 200 yds, rifle.
But anything longer than that is not what I expect to use it for.
If you are wanting a DMR, the RFB is, probably, not the gun for you.
That's just my experience, and that's all I claim it to be.
 
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I only have 4 years experience with the 18" RFB.
I shoot 165gr Tula steel case to 1 to 1.5 moa at 100 yds.
I don't consider the RFB a "precision" rifle.
It is excellant as a close range, 100 to 200 yds, rifle.
But anything longer than that is not what I expect to use it for.
If you are wanting a DMR, the RFB is, probably, not the gun for you.
That's just my experience, and that's all I claim it to be.
Yea.."Precision rifle" and Dmr are not the same thing.

Precision rifle to me is less than 1moa.

Dmr 1moa to 2moa.

Battle rifle 3moa.

These are my numbers just for clarification not based on any militray standard

If you want,Ill see if I can find a video of Chad from keltec shootong at 600 yrds with an Rfb
 

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I average 2.5 MOA out of my 18” RFB. That’s not bad for a non-free floated barrel. That makes it a 1 shot tapper to 300 yards. If yours does better, that makes it a keeper.
 

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I agree with @amstel78 that the accuracy improves the lighter the .308 load in the RFB, and after a few thousand rounds (and a few thousand gas adjustments!) in my 18" RFB, I've had the most consistently low MOA results (just a shade over 1 MOA) with 146gr FMJ, shooting on a bipod attached to the barrel threads, using a 5x Burris. Shooting the same load from a sandbag adds perhaps .5 MOA, though I don't understand why (but don't care, as I'll either shoot one round from the bipod, or quick-disconnect and shoot a few rounds unsupported, and move.)

Like most other users here, I've experienced my share of jamming issues, which continue to this day, but are also noticeably reduced when using steelcase and/or light loads.

If I could address your broader question about the rifle's applicability as a DMR, which I qualify by pointing out I was in the diet-military, but did my fair share of shooting: how do you define DMR? I don't think anyone here could prove themselves a long-range precision marksman with the RFB. But with an RFB, an average shooter can put 5 rounds on bear-sized steel at 300 yards with a 4-5 power scope, standing, in perhaps 5-7 seconds. That's DMR to me, but then again I live in Florida where, unless you're on the open water, 300 yards is about the farthest you can see!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I agree with @amstel78 that the accuracy improves the lighter the .308 load in the RFB, and after a few thousand rounds (and a few thousand gas adjustments!) in my 18" RFB, I've had the most consistently low MOA results (just a shade over 1 MOA) with 146gr FMJ, shooting on a bipod attached to the barrel threads, using a 5x Burris. Shooting the same load from a sandbag adds perhaps .5 MOA, though I don't understand why (but don't care, as I'll either shoot one round from the bipod, or quick-disconnect and shoot a few rounds unsupported, and move.)

Like most other users here, I've experienced my share of jamming issues, which continue to this day, but are also noticeably reduced when using steelcase and/or light loads.

If I could address your broader question about the rifle's applicability as a DMR, which I qualify by pointing out I was in the diet-military, but did my fair share of shooting: how do you define DMR? I don't think anyone here could prove themselves a long-range precision marksman with the RFB. But with an RFB, an average shooter can put 5 rounds on bear-sized steel at 300 yards with a 4-5 power scope, standing, in perhaps 5-7 seconds. That's DMR to me, but then again I live in Florida where, unless you're on the open water, 300 yards is about the farthest you can see!
I finally accepted this rifle as a DMR, but now it’s final test; durability. How well do you think this rifle would stand the test against lets say a SCAR-H. It seems incredibly robust and the durability seems comparable to my Tavor at least that’s what I feel.

sandbags are more accurate to shoot from due to consistency and a softer surface and less shock is transferred through the rifle affecting the barrel harmonics I believe. That’s why I never use bipods on any precision rifles. You can also use a backpack with the same effect.

I have yet to experience jamming issues with the rifle. Everything for me seems good, it’s just that I really have yo smack the magazine hard to get it to sit well in the rifle. I still only about less than 500 rounds in though.
 

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I finally accepted this rifle as a DMR, but now it’s final test; durability. How well do you think this rifle would stand the test against lets say a SCAR-H. It seems incredibly robust and the durability seems comparable to my Tavor at least that’s what I feel.

sandbags are more accurate to shoot from due to consistency and a softer surface and less shock is transferred through the rifle affecting the barrel harmonics I believe. That’s why I never use bipods on any precision rifles. You can also use a backpack with the same effect.

I have yet to experience jamming issues with the rifle. Everything for me seems good, it’s just that I really have yo smack the magazine hard to get it to sit well in the rifle. I still only about less than 500 rounds in though.
Depends on how you test/define what your calling "Durability"

The Rfb didnt go through any military trials nor is it marketed to be a military rifle in that manner..As I said before..it all depends on what you mean by "durability"..As much as I love the Rfb..Scar will probably win depending in how your definition of the durability
 

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The SCAR is a robust platform which has been proven in the field. It's rare that a malfunction in a SCAR would require a takedown just to resolve whereas an RFB most likely would.

The gas system is also a bit shady in the RFB. I don't like the idea of having to swap pistons just to use a suppressor.

In my opinion, the RFB is certainly a novel weapon system if you consider the engineering behind its tilting bolt and internal ejection chute. But if the SHTF and I needed to have an accurate 308 rifle for engagements out to 600 or 700 meters, it'd probably be AR based.

Also, I wish KT would have opted for a a DPMS / Magpul magazine rather than FAL. It's not easy nowadays finding good surplus FAL mags. The new polymer stuff is all hit or miss, even in my Brazilian FAL much less the RFB.
 

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Also, I wish KT would have opted for a a DPMS / Magpul magazine rather than FAL. It's not easy nowadays finding good surplus FAL mags. The new polymer stuff is all hit or miss, even in my Brazilian FAL much less the RFB.
So I keep seeing people say this..But The whole reason the went with the Fal mags is because they were cheap and plentiful at the time (2008) and had been so for a while. Keeping in mind it was also the ONLY bullpup 308 for a LONG Time.

I was actually tickled that I didn't need a new magazine between my FAL and RFB.Meaning I Could use either rifle and have access to a dozen magazines. Im sure they will go with that SR25 Magazine type should they upgrade the RDB style into a 308 gun. I initially got the wild hair to see if I could convert my gun to SR25..But those mags are physically bigger than the Metal or Polymer Fal mags..
 
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