Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner

ATF to Regulate Pistols with "Stabilizing Braces" as SBRs

5.9K views 26 replies 12 participants last post by  ARA  
#1 ·
I have been expecting this for several years.

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives (ATF) finalized a new regulation Friday that will treat guns with stabilizing accessories like short-barreled rifles, which require a federal license to own under the National Firearms Act."

 
#2 ·
#3 ·
We knew it was coming down the pike as different people/groups kept claiming it would come out in Aug then Nov then Dec..........
The interesting thing is the document is almost 300 pages long and the reason is the BATF in a very uncharacteristic move were very specific and gave multiple examples of what would be legal (sort of) or illegal. They did (characteristically) leave themselves some wiggle room as to what would be considered legal, they provide verbal examples which means it can be somewhat open to interpretation on their part.
Unless the courts put a stay on the rule anyone with what is now considered a SBR has 120 days to use the BATF eform to apply for a SBR, the $200 tax stamp is waived. The other option is to remove the brace/blade and dispose of it or make it so it is impossible to reuse on the AR pistol.
 
#7 · (Edited)
BATF is ruling more like the Canadian Mounted Police.
I thought only Congress was supposed to be able to make law.
Nobody voted for any representatives to serve on the BATF.
Yes, the whole AR pistol brace thing was always a FUBAR situation just waiting for the BATF to put the kibosh on it.
I have no brace to loose, only my free country.
 
#8 ·
Most Americans do not understand that after Congress passes a bill and the president signs it into law, it is assigned to the appropriate Executive Branch agency to implement. That agency develops implementing policy and procedure, and neither is subject to review by Congress. If the agency misinterprets the will of the Legislative Branch, the only thing that Congress can do is pass another bill and send it to the president. So that's what the BATFE is doing. If Congress thinks they got it wrong, the remedy is to pass corrective legislation. Want to bet on that happening?
 
#9 ·
hate to say it, but by making an ar pistol, I got a poor substitute for what I really wanted, an SBR, without the paperwork and restrictions that go with an NFA firearm. if I knew the ATF could be trusted I think I'd take the amnesty and put it in a trust and put a real stock on it. in fact, I might register a couple of my "other" lowers too. making them legal SBR's IF they would be transferable like other NFA items
 
#11 ·
SO, after scanning the 293 page document, and seeing Kel-Tec SUB2000, 9mm, in tables in a few places:
IS MY (stock) KEL-TEC SUB2000 now illegal??? It DOES have a barrel longer (barely) than 16 inches.
Nothing else added, other than a flashlight, and sling that are both easily removable,
It was used as a comparison of weight, length and LOP of other long arms.

It’s a rifle, with a 16+” barrel. NFA does not apply.
 
#14 · (Edited)
"Except that isn't what the ATF is doing according to a number of lawyers." Ah, lawyers. Who do you think wrote the 300 pages? All of a sudden lawyers are to be trusted? 315 out of 535 members of Congress are lawyers. Do you trust them?

"They are redefining terms of the NFA to suit their liking which they are not allowed to do." As I explained, the implementing agency's responsibility is to interpret the law and develop implementing policies and procedures. Policy isn't a once-and-done. As conditions change, policy changes are made to keep current with the realities on the ground. Every Executive Branch agency does this. It's their job. You may not like it, but there is absolutely nothing new, unusual, or inappropriate about what has happened. We may not approve of WHAT the ATF has done, but the METHOD employed is a part of every Executive Branch agency's mission.

Congress can address this. Years ago an agency of the Department of the Interior (BLM, if I remember correctly) misinterpreted a new law that was meant to open up lands controlled by the federal government to OHV use. The agency used it to CONTROL OHV use on federal lands. The OHV industry along with the OHV community raised such a stink that Congress was obliged to pass another law to tell the agency how to properly interpret the first law. Congress can do so in this case, too. All we need to do is raise a stink. But, of course, any pro-gun bill passed by the GOP controlled House would be dead on arrival at the Dem controlled Senate and it would never get to the president's desk. And even if it did, Biden would veto it. This is a done deal for at least the remaining two years of the Biden/Harris administration.
 
#16 · (Edited)
^^^Hardly definitive. I lost count of the number of layers of second-hand, supposition, and unsupported claims. It might all be true, but it's mighty flimsy. YouTube is hardly a source of sound legal advice - and that's exactly what this is. Guess wrong and you're in trouble with the federal government. Caveat emptor.

BTW, here is the SHOT Show interview he refers to:
 
#18 ·
BINGO! And very, very true.
As an example (and not to misdirect this thread), there are now literally millions of amateur virologists, epidemiologists, and vaccinologists in America and they all have the same things in common: no relevant education, no relevant experience, computer/laptop ownership, and YouTube accounts.
 
#21 ·
true but it may point to other sources and sources a "credible" as the CDC are now admitting info that is troubling enough to lend credibility to sources once labeled as cranks by those same government sources. Sorry about the repetitive use of "sources". When data on vaccine testing is made secret for 75 years and blanket immunity is given to producers of said vaccines while 4.1 TRILLION has been spent on covid relief (USAspending.gov) one might wonder how much has been funneled into pockets with less than altruistic purposes. This gives one reason to suspect the worst about other government edicts.
 
#25 ·
SCOTUS curbed the EPA's ability to regulate the energy industry in a similar decision. Regulatory overreach is an ongoing problem, not the least in the ATF.

Congress has this habit of abrogating their responsibilities, most often due to a lack of interest in actually solving problems when they can continue to get donations and reelected by doing the opposite.
 
#26 · (Edited)
SCOTUS curbed the EPA's ability to regulate the energy industry in a similar decision. Regulatory overreach is an ongoing problem, not the least in the ATF.

Congress has this habit of abrogating their responsibilities, most often due to a lack of interest in actually solving problems when they can continue to get donations and reelected by doing the opposite.
Yes, the very most likely short-term remedy will be had via the courts. This will be the case for at least two years, as the Dem controlled Senate will not likely pass (or perhaps even vote!) on favorable legislation passed by the House, and Biden would veto it even if they did.

With reference to the YouTube Military Arms Channel (MAC) video at post #23, I note that Tim (the MAC guy who is a favorite of mine and is really knowledgeable about firearms and does terrific range tests) is relying on an interpretation of the law and assumptions about how the law will be enforced made by a third party. Tim, well intentioned though he is, is reporting what he understood from a phone call he received from someone other than the ATF. In other words, this is third-party information. What we do not know is whether the ATF is actually enforcing the new ruling as Tim and his contact think they are.