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So I got an email from them about their new release.
9mm, single stack, and (gasp) it has a hammer!
I thought double/single triggers was out of style...
 

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Generally I like hammer-fired guns better than striker-fired guns, but it depends on the gun. Many of the striker-fired guns do not have all that great of a trigger. Usually the SA firing mode of a DA/SA pistol has a good trigger feel, but not always. The DA mode of a DA/SA is usually pretty heavy.

One example of a better trigger on a striker-fired gun is my HK P30S DA/SA hammer vs. my sons HK VP9 striker. I admit, the VP9 has the better trigger of the two. The VP9 has the benefit of the better trigger and a lower sale price. The P30S has the benefit of being able to carry it DA, or cocked-n-locked SA. The P30S also has double strike capability whereas the VP9 does not. Looking at it from a purely functional perspective, these two guns are six of one, half dozen of the other. Pluses and minuses for each. But if you add price into the equation, it becomes a no-brainer - get the VP9.

If you want a striker-fired gun with a good trigger, I'd recommend you look at the HK VP9 or the Walther PPQ. Those two put other striker-fired guns, e.g. Glocks and probably most everything else, to shame.

I will be interested to try these new hammer-fired XD's. We currently have four XD's, all striker fired. Nothing wrong with an XD (as evidenced by how many we have!), but I'm looking forward to trying one of these new hammer variations sometime in the future.
 

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So I got an email from them about their new release.
9mm, single stack, and (gasp) it has a hammer!
I thought double/single triggers was out of style...
Striker fired pistols are cheaper to make. They function reliably but that it no way makes them superior to a DA/SA pistol or a SA pistol. Quality never goes out of "style".
 

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Oh, look. An XDS with a hammer. :p

It would be nice if they actually came out with something INNOVATIVE, rather than putting a century-old design into a polymer frame and calling it "new." Until then ... *yawn* ... just more of the same.
 

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DA/SA triggers are the worst for consistent marksmanship. Hammer fired guns also tend to be less reliable than striker fired.

I have no idea why they are making this one. I'm sure people will buy it but I sure won't be one of them.
 

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DA/SA triggers are the worst for consistent marksmanship. Hammer fired guns also tend to be less reliable than striker fired.
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The DA/SA auto is easily mastered. Striker fired guns are a proven design but more reliable than a a quality DA/SA???? As reliable as most but more reliable than the Sig family or the CZ 75s ...I seriously doubt it.
 

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From what I seen so far of it, I really dont care for it and will pass on it. It just doesnt "appeal" to me of a handgun that I would really want or need.
 

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The DA/SA auto is easily mastered. Striker fired guns are a proven design but more reliable than a a quality DA/SA???? As reliable as most but more reliable than the Sig family or the CZ 75s ...I seriously doubt it.
I can tell you from personal experience how "reliable" the Sig 226 can be when exposed to adverse conditions. Let's just say I'm not at all impressed and leave it at that so we don't get too far off topic.

Something that does pertain to this new gun on the subject of reliability is the exposed hammer is another way for debris to get in the gun and cause problems. I've seen it happen where a little junk was enough to stop the hammer from working at all. A striker fired gun doesn't have that potential.

Also the DA/SA trigger isn't consistent which makes it the hardest trigger system to master. Yes, it can be done but not as easily as others.
 

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After the stunts they have pulled on the legal front in Illinois, SA is dead to me.

CJP32, while I understand you have seen anecdotal cases, in general, the assertion that striker fired are more reliable than hammer fired has nothing to do with those two firing mechanics, but the firearm designs in which they are used. Plenty of striker fired pistols go down with the striker channels full of debris.

Tell me why the DA/SA CZs are the prefered, and most winning system in the action shooting sports at this time? Hint...because they are the easiest to shoot other than a single action. Safe-action and DAO are certainly harder to master than DA/SA guns. In the divisions that disallow SA triggers, the DA/Dominates.
 

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I'd wager the reason DA/SA is "easier to master" has nothing to do with the DA mode of the pistol and EVERYTHING to do with the SA mode. That first DA shot is often referred to as the "throwaway shot," because it's notoriously hard to go from a long, heavy DA pull and then adjust to a MUCH shorter, MUCH lighter SA pull. After you put so many SA rounds through and get used to that, then reload, decock, and try that DA pull again ... yeah, that first round ain't gonna be ANYWHERE near as "easy" as those other SA shots were. It's easy to shoot a DA/SA in SA mode, no doubt, and if it can be carried Condition One like a 1911 - round chambered, hammer back, safety on - then it's basically like an upscale 1911. Otherwise, it's a royal pain to "get" the trigger, even with copious amounts of practice.

I won't weigh in on the reliability of striker VS hammer-fired, because to me it's kind of a wash - I've had buggy pistols of both types. (FWIW, the most common problem of striker channel debris has to do with lack of proper maintenance/cleaning, NOT the pistol's design - SA and DA/SA pistols can just as easily have their firing pin channels gunked up.) But the idea that a DA/SA trigger is "easier" to master than a DAO or strictly SA trigger is a dubious-at-best claim. The commonality of their use/success in competition does not equate to ease in the mastery of a manual of arms. And by "mastery," I mean equal proficiency with BOTH the DA **AND** the SA modes of the DA/SA system. That sort of skill takes TONS of practice. Just because the pros can do it does not make it "easy" for the average Joe Schmoe, y'know? That's like saying, "Well, Jerry Miculek can fire X number of rounds in X number of seconds, including a reload, so therefore revolvers are quick and easy for anyone to reload."

FWIW, about the only two DA/SA pistols I've fired and/or owned that didn't have an absolute crap SA trigger pull were the FNX-45 and the CZ 75b; everything else, in my experience, has had a SUPER mushy SA pull and usually a vague, soft, and oftentimes long reset. (Examples include the Beretta 92FS, Ruger P85/P89, Ruger SR22, Taurus PT709, Taurus PT24/7 Pro, Tanfoglio Witness, etc.)

The only advantage I can see to the XDe having a DA/SA trigger setup is the SA mode, which by nature allows for a shorter, lighter trigger and thus more precise shooting for distant/small targets. And mayyyyyybe the benefit of an "added margin of safety" with that long, heavy DA first-pull ... although, per the Golden Four Rules, you shouldn't be getting your finger or anything else in that trigger guard in the first place until you're on-target and have decided to fire. :p
 

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I've personally seen about a dozen different DA/SA have failures to fire due to light or no strikes. They were all "quality" pistols that have been mentioned already. The ammo was good, factory new, American made ammo. It didn't happen just once either, the pistols would only fire some of the time until they were completely stripped and cleaned. Some still had problems after being sent to the factory for service.

On the other hand I have never seen a striker fired pistol do that. Yes, I've seen some light strikes but none that required anything more than clearing that round and continuing to shoot. That gives me a pretty clear idea that it was a problem with the ammo and not the gun.

Take it for what you want but in my personal experience striker fired pistols have been more reliable. No amount of arguing online will convince me otherwise.

Same goes with the marksmanship issues DA/SA causes. It's the worst trigger system for me and several professional firearm instructors have told me the same. I don't care what any competitive shooters use, that rarely translates to real world shooting.

All that said if you like it, great, feel free to buy several but I have no interest.
 

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I have two DA/SA pistols. They are both range toys. An HK P30S, and a Ruger SR22.

I never fire either DA. Insert mag, rack slide, fire SA. I treat the DA as more of a secondary safety. On the HK, I put the safety on and then drop the hammer. On the Ruger, putting the safety on automatically drops the hammer (scared the crap out of me when it did that the first time I handled it!) On the HK, if I hear a click instead of a bang (that has never happened), I can just pull the trigger again to see if that fires the reluctant round.

I've never had a pistol that was unreliable other than a XD/S .45. I had an ammunition-caused problem in my PF9 once, but that was positively ammunition, not the gun. They had a recall on the XD/S because evidently the things could slam fire and empty a mag on one trigger pull. We had no problems with ours, but obviously sent it back for the recall. It came back from the recall and was attempting to fire out of battery. It had never done that before the recall work was done. We'd hear a click instead of a bang, note that the slide was not fully locked, and then note a dented primer. Talk about scary! This is a striker fired gun. Back to the factory it went. It appears that they fixed it, but I will never trust that gun again. It's now a range toy, and we visually inspect that the slide is fully forward after every shot, and often bump it with the heal of our hand as an extra safety measure. It always has been in battery thus far after the repair, but the paranoia is still there. It would have been fine if we found it out of battery with no dent in the primer, but that dent being there tells you it TRIED to fire out of battery. That's 100% the fault of the gun IMHO. Lucky for us, it was unsuccessful.
 

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having seen the pistol in latest American Rifleman I'm pretty sure this is going for the concealed carry market. DA/SA with a safety and a three inch barrel; its a carry gun. And if you're new to the striker guns (yeah that's me, only got one glock in the house..) a hammer on a pistol is comfortable. It's same battery of arms (more or less) across all my revolvers, 1911's and then this. Put my hand on the gun and I know which conditions it's in no matter what. And here's something I like to do with my hammer-ed autos... I carry with a round in the chamber, hammer down. Should I smell something sketchy, I can cock that hammer in the holster. Yeah, It's another step, but first off, If I'm carrying one of these guns it's already a condition green kinda day. I put that gun on cause I'd don't carry it daily and its that cool big piece of steel I'll carry once in a while because I can. ( full size 1911, and recently aquired m57 Tokarev) All the other carry pieces I own are DAO and honestly If you can shoot them well enough, you can shoot the other 95% of pistols out there better than most of their owners. Sorry, but that fact pisses my boss off every time we shoot together. So much so, he's finally recognized and purchased And has begun to carry a Sig 226 and a smith revolver for just this reason. Don't get me wrong, striker fired guns are great and I love the triggers, but being broke and owning a couple of used revolvers initially and shooting things like a bersa .380 or the PF9 make this sort a gun look pretty awesome...I'd like mine in stainless with a 4" barrel please.
 

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I'm in with darkwriter 77 as far as the SA/DA is concerned with this new release. Plus this gives their buyers another choice and something new to try out. We get something to talk about too . I like their guns anyway, and would like to get one of these to try out. The XD reputation is already established bad this new version probably won't disappoint.
 

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Watched their promo video, the height dimension of the slide appears to be even taller than a standard XD. This was one of the only detractors to the standard XD when I was picking between that and the glock 19.
 

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I'm surprised nobody mentioned what SA did in Illinois. I will not buy another SA made firearm.

http://www.guns.com/2017/05/02/state-level-gun-dealer-licensing-bill-passes-in-illinois-senate/
You might want to re-think that.

I wrote this on another board but it still applies.

I have deliberately not passed judgment one way or another on this issue but I think I'm getting close to coming down on one side, and I think it might be in favor of Springfield and Rock.

It's been about half a month since the story was broke on TTAG that Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms had stabbed LGS's in the back (and by extension every 2A proponent, freedom lover, and the whole blink'n nation). TTAG reported that IMFA, through their lobbyist agreed to take a stance of "neutral" on an evil gun-store closing Illinois bill if IMFA members were given a carve-out and exempted. Springfield and Rock were both founding members if IMFA and the largest, most important/recognizable, contributors to it.

Since then I've seen Springfield and Rock beaten up pretty bad on forums and parts of the 2A blogosphere. What I didn't hear was Springfield or Rock's side of it. Now, I've seen official press releases from both and heard an interview with a Rock representative.

I'll be honest, both "sides" of this issue make some convincing points and, unless I can acquire an Arisian Lens, I doubt if anyone will ever be able to prove one or the other is deliberately lying or misrepresenting. So, frankly, it comes down to the earned reputations of both sides.

On one side is Rock and Springfield. Both have been pro-2A for a very long time. Both have a well documented history of donating to pro-2A causes and organizations. Collectively, they've given vast amounts of money and volunteered a great deal of time to the NRA and other similar orgs. Is it possible that Rock and Springfield threw gun owners and LGS's under the buss for corporate profits? Yes. Is it consistent with what we know of their history? No.

On the other side is TTAG. TTAG has a reputation of plagiarism, intellectual property theft of images and other material, misrepresentation of information to promote their website, false accusations, "reporting" gossip as fact, and flat out lying (some of which I've personally witnessed). At best TTAG is the firearms community equivalent of the National Enquirer; at worst TTAG wouldn't know the truth if they had it in their name. ;) Is it possible that TTAG is honestly and fairly reporting without embellishment or "sexing" the story up in order to drive clicks and controversy? Yes. Is it consistent with their history? No.

So, until contradictory information surfaces from a reliable source, I'm going to land on the side that Springfield, Rock, and most (all?) of the other members of IMFA were unaware that their lobbyist "went rogue" and made a deal which, while in his client's short term best interest, would harm the over all 2A community while placing his clients in a serious negative light which could ultimately cost them millions in negative publicity and lost sales.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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What about how this "IFMA" group basically consists of only a PO Box and a checking account, and their two main contributors are Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms? Not sure how they could claim to have been unaware of the IFMA's lobbying actions when the IFMA basically **IS** Springfield and Rock. :confused:

Anyway. All that aside, fact remains that going from a striker-fired setup to a DA/SA almost seems like a step backward made to appease the interests of a much smaller part of the market that simply MUST have a hammer and/or manual safety on their carry gun. But then again, I'm also one of those guys that wishes they would make more quality pistols in 10mm and .357 Sig, just because, and there's not likely to be a whole lot of new ones of either coming out because there just isn't that much of a huge demand for it, sooooo...
 

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Three firearms companies I no longer deal with or buy any product of any kind from are:
Springfield Armory
Rock River Arms
Remington

All 3 have hurt our 2nd amendment rights at one time or another over the years to make sure their company makes a profit at our expense. Anyone who thinks otherwise dont have a clue. Either that or they are a darn fool! Dont ask for any links, proof, or such. I did my own work and my own research, please do your own as I dont work for free!
 

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Three firearms companies I no longer deal with or buy any product of any kind from are:
Springfield Armory
Rock River Arms
Remington

All 3 have hurt our 2nd amendment rights at one time or another over the years to make sure their company makes a profit at our expense. Anyone who thinks otherwise dont have a clue. Either that or they are a darn fool! Dont ask for any links, proof, or such. I did my own work and my own research, please do your own as I dont work for free!
you better throw Ruger in there then
 
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