Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by PghS2K, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. PghS2K

    PghS2K New Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Anyone use Winchester USA Ammunition 380 ACP 95 Grain Full Metal Jacket for SD?
    It looks like it has the top penetration (17") in the GoldenLoki gel test:  http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm
    . . . and I like the flat nose pushing thru that much (soft) tissue.  I pulled a flyer from the 2x4 support frame:  it had penetrated about 3 1/4" of soft pine. BTW, the slug had only a small dent in the flat nose.
  2. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    However that is what is my magazine ;)

  3. Ka6otm

    Ka6otm New Member

    Sep 12, 2007
    Nope. I'm a Hydra-Shock and/or Speer Gold Dot kind of guy.
  4. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    I use a high-end JHP (speer or hydro) samiched 'twixed fmj's. If I need to use this gun, the range will be bunk, so I'm not worried about the varience in how they shoot, but if I'm fair, and give everyone a few, they should each get some mushrooms and some sinkers. That's my theory, hope I never find out if it is worth anything.
    FWIW, I've plinked more of the cheapo fmj's than anything else, and they all work. Every one goes boom.
  5. Picatinny_Pete

    Picatinny_Pete New Member

    Sep 2, 2009

    The Winchester USA Ammunition 380 ACP 95 Grain Full Metal Jacket round does have the advantage that it has almost identical penetration to the Lead +P Buffalo Bore Round which is much more expensive and you will be able to practice more since it's less expensive. I carry 380 Winchester PDX1 bonded JHP's now in my P3AT, but still carry FMJ in the second magazine. The FMJ ammo is reliable, shoots well, and if you a are confident in it and can place your shots it will be effective. Have fun and be safe.

    Best Wishes: :)
  6. PghS2K

    PghS2K New Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Thanks for the info P_Pete.  
    Placement is king, and after a day at the range with WWB FMJ 380, I feel confident in it and the P3AT.
    Why do you carry PDX1?
  7. gordon11

    gordon11 Well-Known Member

    Dec 30, 2007
    I personally don't carry fmj for defense in .380 but I believe you've found a carry round. The WWB and UMC both ran pretty hot in GL's test. You already know the WWB is reliable in your gun. The flat nose could give you a wadcutter effect similar to the BB hardcast. Plus WWB has a jacket to hold it together.
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel New Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    Eastern Kansas
    In every gun test I have seen to date that tested the WWB .380 for velocity, it is always the weakest ammo out there.
    Sometimes not reaching 800 FPS / 125 ft/lb energy.

    Just read one the other day in Handloader in a Ruger Copy pistol.
    Fed HS = 911 FPS.
    Fed JHP = 922 FPS.
    Horn Critical Defense = 912 FPS.
    Blazer FMJ = 933 FPS.
    American Eagle FMJ = 865 FPS.
    Win SXT = 844 FPS.
    WWB = 813 FPS.

    An American Rifleman test of the P3AT a few years ago showed:
    Cor-Bon = 958 FPS / 194 ft/lb.
    Rem 102 grain GS = 826 FPS / 155 ft/lb.
    WWB = 794 FPS / 126 ft/lb.

    I would personally have an additional 100 - 150 FPS with JHP, then a flat point bullet that isn't going fast enough to take full advantage of the cartridge.

  9. Picatinny_Pete

    Picatinny_Pete New Member

    Sep 2, 2009

    To respectfully disagree with you in this instance with 380 Auto less maybe is better.  I did some penetration tests for a friend with some hot 32 ACP & 380 Auto into a 5 gallon bucket with 10" wetpack on the bottom and 4" of water on top about 20" of gelatin equivalent.  Typically, jacketed rounds out of 380 Auto manage to penetrate to within 2-3" of the bottom and stop.  

    These 380 rounds I tested were flat pointed and made by Santa Barbara in Spain.  They went through the water and the wetpack, the bottom of the bucket and flattened out beneath on a rock.  I have no doubt they would've punched through a man and still had enough force to be dangerous.  I think 825-850 feet per second is fast enough as the Winchester flat point FMJ 380 Auto bullets tend to travel straight in and do not tumble.  I personally think you can have too much penetration for some uses.

    Best Regards:  :)
  10. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    [hijack]I have some of those Santa Barbara rounds.  They are not something to use in any 380 ammo comparison as they are absolutely the hottest 380 round I have ever seen.  They were loaded in the 80s for Brazilian police IIRC, and were surely meant to be fired from an all steel, service grade weapon.  A couple years back, we had some member here run them over a chrono and do some wetpack testing with them.  They are hot, except for the occasional squib round, one of which I experienced myself.  Use caution with them if you must shoot them at all. The ones out there do not appear to be in what I would call excellent condition.[/hijack]  :-/
  11. Picatinny_Pete

    Picatinny_Pete New Member

    Sep 2, 2009

    The above shows that for 380 Auto FMJ self defense ammo that hotter is not necessarily better.  The Santa Barbara ammo while very hot is also a handful to to shoot and apparently very inconsistent with some of the shots giving WWB ballistics and the next giving +P+ results.  The ballistics that RC wants, another 150 FPS tacked on to the WWB's 814 FPS ballistics would give it 964 FPS putting it in the area of recoil and pressure the Santa Barbara rounds had which is too much for the P3AT on a steady basis.  The WWB 380 ammo is decent FMJ ammo with the advantage that it's a controllable consistent round with decent penetration in the P3AT.  Enough said, shoot safe and have fun.

    Best Regards:  :)
  12. oldgranpa

    oldgranpa New Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    I havta agree with Tx on those SantaBarb's. Absoluetly the meanest ammo I've ever tried. Friend had some several years ago that we tried in a SeeCamp LWS 380... about lost my grip from the recoil. Lucky we didn't have a kaboom.
    The fact a P3AT stands up to them is amazing and speaks very well of the quality of the pistol. But I wouldn't use them in my pistols, not even if they were free. Don't tempt Murphy's Law!! :eek:

    og...who doesn't use any so-called +p 380 ammo either!!
  13. billjohnso20

    billjohnso20 Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2008
    .380 FMJs are too prone to over penetrating with too little real tissue upset, IMO. I carry Hornady Critical Defense in mine. The wound channel and penetration is balanced just right for me.
  14. KelTex78

    KelTex78 Active Member

    Jan 10, 2009
    Hornady Critical Defense for me here as well. Sufficient penetration to reach the vitals and reduced risk of over-penetration.

  15. iaminsider

    iaminsider Member

    Nov 24, 2010
    That is one mean looking round!!!
  16. PghS2K

    PghS2K New Member

    Aug 1, 2009
  17. cbrant_2000

    cbrant_2000 New Member

    Dec 18, 2010
    Yes, I'm carrying FMJs for winter for sure, may be a good HP (thinking DPX) for spring thru early Fall???

    380 just does not have much behind it... I do carry HP all year in my P-11
  18. sr5mike

    sr5mike New Member

    Dec 12, 2010
    It is not the depth of the penetration it is what is does once it is in there. Ask your wife to explain it to you. JHP for SD.
  19. cbrant_2000

    cbrant_2000 New Member

    Dec 18, 2010
    Cute Mike. But no it really is about reaching vitals, through ribs, clothes and flesh.
  20. Represent316

    Represent316 New Member

    Nov 24, 2010
    We could sit here and argue / test rounds all day, But at the end of the day i dont think it would matter what round is in your SD magazine.. Its how you use it.

    I personally wouldnt wanna find myself in the path of ANY bullet.