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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wolff now has springs for the P3AT:

11 lb. (Factory)
13 lb.
15 lb.
16 lb

Question: For the "Hottest" loads, i.e. Corbon DPX, Buffalo Bore, etc., should the 16 lb. be used?

Thanks

Boggs
 

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You could always buy their spring pack and try the different weights.

Now Wolff just needs to make mag springs for the P3-AT!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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It would be interesting to get the dimensions of those increased force springs. While I'm no way qualified to design a spring (though there are many in use I have spec'ed) I was unable to get a combination of diameters and pitch that would work (with out weaking quickly) :-/
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
JFB:

I know they have been working on them for a very long time. I would think that the "hot" ammo could use a stronger spring?

By the way, do I PM you for your JFB washers?

Thanks, Boggs
 

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as for the washer http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1239940202/0#0

back to your question. my THOUGHTS (opinion)...the dynamics of grip should become more of a function of which spring is best, more so than the ammo selection. That is, the factory spring works OK with the hotest comercial ammo and it seems up to a point, the gun functions more relaiably with snappier rounds. at the other extreme, the factory springs allow some pretty high slide velocity and thus wear with the cheapest ammo. If I were to pry the few bucks for the springs from my tight wallet, the 16# would be my choice since I THINK I know the correct way to hold a gun and thus even WWB would function reliably ;)

for me, A bigger money consideration besides to wolff would be the ammo I would want to spend testing...like I say...to measure is to know ;D
 

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I bought the three-pack. 13#, 15# & 16#. I tried the 13# in my Gen. I P-3-AT with standard pressure ammo. Had one failure to fully chamber in the first dozen rounds, fine after that. They feel quite a bit stronger than factory springs with only 150 or so rounds.
 

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I bought the calibration pack for the P3AT and tried all of them. I got the sense that the felt recoil was a good bit sharper with the 16 pound spring and finally settled on keeping the 13 pound spring installed.

One of the most notable changes between the 11 and the 13 is the distance the empties are thrown. With the factory springs the empties landed about 20 feet behind me and with the 13 pounder they land about 8-10 feet away. I'm assuming that slide speed and therefore stress and battering of the gun is reduced appreciably by using a higher rated spring.
 

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copterdrvr said:
I bought the calibration pack for the P3AT and tried all of them.  I got the sense that the felt recoil was a good bit sharper with the 16 pound spring and finally settled on keeping the 13 pound spring installed.

One of the most notable changes between the 11 and the 13 is the distance the empties are thrown.  With the factory springs the empties landed about 20 feet behind me and with the 13 pounder they land about 8-10 feet away.  I'm assuming that slide speed and therefore stress and battering of the gun is reduced appreciably by using a higher rated spring.
Interesting finding. Can someone say for sure that the increased spring rate causes less stress to the gun?
 

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Well, I placed and order for both the P3AT and P32 calibration packs.

I also order the 10% magazine spring. (the P32 and P3AT use the same spring)

So ,As Soon As I get them, I write up my measurements and try to perform some analytical testing ;)
 

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JFB said:
Well, I placed and order for both the P3AT and P32 calibration packs.

I also order the 10% magazine spring.  (the P32 and P3AT use the same spring)

So ,As Soon As I get them, I write up my measurements and try to perform some analytical testing ;)
Another thing learned here. I had no idea someone has the magazine springs.  :cool:
 

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copterdrvr said:
I bought the calibration pack for the P3AT and tried all of them.  I got the sense that the felt recoil was a good bit sharper with the 16 pound spring and finally settled on keeping the 13 pound spring installed.

One of the most notable changes between the 11 and the 13 is the distance the empties are thrown.  With the factory springs the empties landed about 20 feet behind me and with the 13 pounder they land about 8-10 feet away.  I'm assuming that slide speed and therefore stress and battering of the gun is reduced appreciably by using a higher rated spring.
They would be worth the cost in just recovered brass. I bet I loose 30% of my hard to replace brass. It just plain dissapears.
 

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JFB said:
I also order the 10% magazine spring.  (the P32 and P3AT use the same spring)
Dang it. I e-mailed Kel-Tec and asked them if the 380 and 32 used the same magazine spring and I got the simple reply of, "No sir"

I ordered some mag springs from Wolff a few days later, but of course not the Kel-Tec springs because I thought they wouldn't work in my 380.
 

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I just wanted to clarify my statement regarding slide speed and spring changes. It is only an opinion, but it's obvious that increasing the spring rate of the recoil spring slows down the slide. I can't see what else would effect the distance that an empty case is thrown from the pistol other than the velocity of the slide-if absolutely no other part was changed. I did not change the firing pin spring.

If the slides movement is slowed more by a higher rated spring than the impact damage when the slide impacts the barrel and they all come to a screeching halt against the slide/barrel stop pin has to be reduced-I would think! ;)

I would love to hear from one of you engineer types as to whether I'm totally off base with my assumptions here. It's always good to learn.
 

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What you said is pretty much the design "balance" needed for the spring. If the ammo is weak, then the slide would be too slow and not make it all the way back to pickup a fresh round.

copterdrvr said:
..when the slide impacts the barrel and they all come to a screeching halt against the slide/barrel stop pin has to be reduced-I would think! ;)  .
the full recoil impact occurs between the slide and the end of the frame. ie, hold your slide all the way back and you can shake the barrel. the perfect balance between spring, ammo, grip would have the slide velocity just at zero when it just touches the frame.

the impact on the barrel and pin will be on the return to battery. (this is where I'm a little concern with the increase force springs). this is also why Wolff provides and recommends the installation of thier firing pin spring. with the slide returning faster and slamming against the assembly pin, the firing pin might have enough inertia to impact the primer of the chambered round
 

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I don't think the very light Kel-Tec firing pin can ignite a primer under any normal scenario except when it is struck by the hammer. Makarovs don't even use a firing pin spring. A heavy rifle firing pin is a different matter. Even when using very light firing pin springs in my Kel-Tecs examination of a chambered but unfired round indicates no indentation of the primer.
 

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When you run the test, I'd be curious to know if a higher force spring reduces smilies. Seems like if more recoil is absorbed by the spring, there may be less chance of that top round banging into the feed ramp.
 

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got calibration packs today.  I started sticky

Boggs51, check PMs
 
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