Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,676 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Wasn't sure which forum category this might fit into, so here it goes. Was rummaging through my folders and deleting a bunch of old stuff when I happened upon a half-finished video project I had totally spaced out and all but forgotten until tonight. A lack of free time and some hardware problems had prevented me from doing so before, but I went ahead and finished this up tonight on a whim.

Not trying to start a 9mm versus .45 ACP debate here or anything, just thought I'd put this out there in case anyone might find it interesting. Basically, at the time I wanted to see for myself how two roughly equivalent (full-size) pistols firing the same brand and type of ammunition would perform firing into the same kind of media. Not really meant to be a scientific test by any means, just more of an apples-to-apples comparison.

Sorry for the poor video/audio quality, it was the best I could manage with an old Kodak digicam and MS Movie Maker... :eek:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT9UhPuFCcU[/ame]

FWIW, the only thing I took away from it was that there IS a visible difference between the two calibers in expansion and penetration, but not enough (for me) to justify the higher cost, lower capacity, and extra recoil of something bigger than 9mm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,628 Posts
Thank you for sharing. I would not want to be shot by either caliber.. Heck, I don't want to be shot by any caliber.

I personally prefer the 45 for a full size carry gun. But I can see lots of times when 9 would be caliber to consider. As most of us know there are so many factors that can enter into the caliber a person selects.

In simple trims I think of a 9mm as a high speed sports car, and the 45 like a slower moving semi truck. You don't want to get hit by either one.

I believe a 9mm will penetrate more (in general) but a 45 makes a nastier cavity. But again caliber selection is a personal issue with a lot of factors to consider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,311 Posts
Good video!!! When i first started carring i thought you needed at least a 40 with 15 rounds or so.

Now i'm a big 9mm fan in small guns. I like my 45s but the extra mag is too heavy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,676 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks, guys.

I'm mainly partial to the 9mm for cost, capacity, and size reasons - my SW9VE carries the same number of rounds in one mag as my 1911 did loaded 7+1 with a spare 8-round mag - but I do still like and respect the .45 ACP for its place. Oh, and I got a LOT more bullet setback with .45 ACP in the PDX-1 rounds than I have with 9mm in the same type (maybe more to do with the gun than the caliber, I dunno). I'm sure I'll pick up another .45 of some flavor again someday, and the PDX-1 round makes a pretty nice defense round for it (even in .45 LC).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
I'm partial to the 9mm for cost, availability and capacity reasons. I too respect the .45 ACP for its place, but I believe in practicing quite a bit and the added cost of .45 and .40 have kept me in 9mm.

In a SHTF scenario, 9mm will be more available than any other caliber and that is a consideration for me. .40 is as readily available in the US, but 9mm more so, worldwide. It all comes down to cost and availability for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,676 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I sometimes wonder about that SHTF ammo availability theory, myself. Seems like the most common calibers are going to be the hardest to find (at least in stores) because everyone will be hoarding them if a SHTF scenario arises. I mean, unless you're talking about an absolute nightmare scenario (zombie apocalypse or whatever) and you're rummaging through abandoned homes or picking pockets of dead bodies and such to scrounge up ammo and supplies...? :confused:

I dunno. I never put a whole ton of thought into the whole survivalist thing personally because I figure if things ever get that bad, oh well, I'm screwed anyways because I can't cook worth a darn, even in everyday civilized world circumstances. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
I sometimes wonder about that SHTF ammo availability theory, myself. Seems like the most common calibers are going to be the hardest to find (at least in stores) because everyone will be hoarding them if a SHTF scenario arises. I mean, unless you're talking about an absolute nightmare scenario (zombie apocalypse or whatever) and you're rummaging through abandoned homes or picking pockets of dead bodies and such to scrounge up ammo and supplies...? :confused:

I dunno. I never put a whole ton of thought into the whole survivalist thing personally because I figure if things ever get that bad, oh well, I'm screwed anyways because I can't cook worth a darn, even in everyday civilized world circumstances. :D
I am sure you have skills to trade but that is exactly why I save in silver. I buy a little every chance I get. Hard currency in a SHTF scenario will save your life because you can trade it for food, supplies and ammo....the things you need for you and your family to survive.

I am not by any of the stretch "ready" but I have some canned food, a freezer full of fish ready to be thawed salted and dried, some ammo, a little gas, and a plan in place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
I disagree. I would not trade you my food for your silver in a crisis. The silver is of zero practical value, you cant eat it, it makes a crappy bullet (gold isnt bad, but silver is no good), I can't think of a single use for it. So I stockpie ammo components which can be traded for food (in the wild or person to person) or defense or other things.

I just can't make up my mind on defensive ammo. I can't seem to work out at what point more velocity and less weight is better than more weight and less velocity. I am pretty happy with my 165 grain 44 mag loads, which has a goodly amount of both but I can't seem to hit a similar sweet spot with any highcap autos and lets face it, the desert eagle isnt practical. I think I can get there with 9 but its been a drawn out process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,391 Posts
So I stockpie ammo components which can be traded for food (in the wild or person to person) or defense or other things.

QUOTE]
Just a note here. Your 'ammo as currancy' only works for folks who know and trust you. Would you take and use (or trade to someone you respected) ammo from someone you didn't know? I would hope not. In a sub-standard market gold & silver would still have a pretty broad appeal to a fairly wide market. (I hear that although gold has no real value, it is enjoying a 6000+ year bubble)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,628 Posts
I'm in the camp of silver is a good monetary investment, but not for a total SHTF commodity. I'm not going to trade you a firearm, or ammo or gas or food or Rx, for silver. Silver is of no value. As stated I can't eat it, I can't defend myself with it, and so on.

If two guys came up to you after the SHTF and wanted to trade for a car part you had, and they needed, one had 8 oz, of silver, the other had a full bottle of extra strength aspirin ( 500 count), who would you trade with?

I would take the aspirin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
I'm in the camp of silver is a good monetary investment, but not for a total SHTF commodity. I'm not going to trade you a firearm, or ammo or gas or food or Rx, for silver. Silver is of no value. As stated I can't eat it, I can't defend myself with it, and so on.

If two guys came up to you after the SHTF and wanted to trade for a car part you had, and they needed, one had 8 oz, of silver, the other had a full bottle of extra strength aspirin ( 500 count), who would you trade with?

I would take the aspirin.
exactly my point. Silver and gold only work if there is still some sort of stable civilization to spend it in. In which case, it clearly rocks. After the plague or nukes or whatever, it is just dead weight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,391 Posts
exactly my point. Silver and gold only work if there is still some sort of stable civilization to spend it in. In which case, it clearly rocks. After the plague or nukes or whatever, it is just dead weight.
Ok, way off op here, but I gotta disagree. You don't need a stable civilization, you just need some reasonable expectation of some sort of civilization to return. So, while not valuable in the 'dark times', with reasonable expectations of improvement, those with some degree of capital will speculate that gold regain it's value.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
823 Posts
I agree with lop. Gold has been of high value in virtually every civilization for millenia, it will probably continue to fascinate people, especially those who already have a lot in comparison to the "masses".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,793 Posts
You have to make it thru the "dark times" first. And then it would probably be some time before any type of government would even be accepted. Imagine 5-10-15 years of no taxes, day to day grind, or what it was like to not distrust every person that crossed your path. Then to say hey we're restarting the government again whether you like it or not. Count me out at that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,676 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I disagree. I would not trade you my food for your silver in a crisis. The silver is of zero practical value, you cant eat it, it makes a crappy bullet (gold isnt bad, but silver is no good), I can't think of a single use for it. So I stockpie ammo components which can be traded for food (in the wild or person to person) or defense or other things.

I just can't make up my mind on defensive ammo. I can't seem to work out at what point more velocity and less weight is better than more weight and less velocity. I am pretty happy with my 165 grain 44 mag loads, which has a goodly amount of both but I can't seem to hit a similar sweet spot with any highcap autos and lets face it, the desert eagle isnt practical. I think I can get there with 9 but its been a drawn out process.
Meh ... don't over-think it. I did for a long while, and the long and short of it is pretty much anything 9mm and up will work just fine as long as it feeds and fires reliably. There's even stuff in .380 ACP and below that'll do the job for defensive needs, unless the ONLY kind of bad guys you're expecting to run up against are 300+ pounds, covered in 3 layers of leather, and jacked up on PCP at all times. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Jonnin, you and I are on the same page. If it gets bad enough... WROL, kill or be killed, yes you are correct, I trade in ammo, tools and food. After we regain some sense of civility, then those with hard currency will come out ahead of those with bullets and tools to trade.

I also save silver in case paper currency is more valuable to start the wood stove with than to trade for hardgoods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
Meh ... don't over-think it. I did for a long while, and the long and short of it is pretty much anything 9mm and up will work just fine as long as it feeds and fires reliably. There's even stuff in .380 ACP and below that'll do the job for defensive needs, unless the ONLY kind of bad guys you're expecting to run up against are 300+ pounds, covered in 3 layers of leather, and jacked up on PCP at all times. :D

I do and I don't. Its more of an ongoing physics problem of interest than a practical issue. I stuffed some defense ammo that seems to feed into mine and let it go at that, as you said. But I am still playing with the ballistics, which is so very complex for so simple a problem (who knew lobbing a slug downrange had so much going on?!). It keeps me entertained better than TV :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
823 Posts
well so far, in all of human history, there's never been an event that destroyed human civilization. Volcanoes, floods, eathquakes, The Plague for god's sake. We made it thru all of them. The only thing that comes close to what I think we all fear is the Fall of the Roman Empire. That really did result in The Dark Ages. Hundreds of years until Western Europe really got it's shyt together (but still fought with each other).

The main thing most of us really had to fear was an all out nuclear war with the ussr which will not happen now. I don't think we have alot to worry about outside of temporary catastrophes (nature based).

I watch Doomsday Preppers like many of us but, honestly, I think every one of those people is seriously mentally challenged. They spend so much time preparing for the end of the world that they kinda quit living in the real one. That scares me more then catastrophe.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top