[MSZO]

I'm new, so please have patience. To start off, the 2G P3AT manual does say to "avoid" dry firing. OK, no problem. But, it doesn't say what will happen if dry firing occurs.

I took a look at the diagram of the pistol, and it seems that the only thing that the buttonhead does is keep the firing pin from backing out of the slide. It also seems, that when the hammer drops, it hits the firing pin, which moves forward against the firing pin spring resistance. After the ignition of the powder, the firing pin is retracted by the firing pin spring and comes to rest against the buttonhead again. So, wouldn't the only part to get abused by dry firing be the firing pin spring because of over compression? The hammer doesn't strike the button head for sure. So, what is striking the buttonhead during dry firing, other than the raised lip on the firing pin?

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand what is going on.

Mike

 

[Guest]

First-
Welcome MSZO

As to the "buttonhead" are you asking about part # 183?

In addition to it holding the firing pin, it also applies pressure to and holds the extractor spring. (part #182)

The only damage I know of that happens with the button head is that the head can strip out if using the cheap wrench sent with the gun. SO....... get a decent allen wrench and use care with the screw, and maybe get a spare screw.

I have no idea where the idea that dry firing would damage the screw, however; I never dryfire the 3AT.

To quote page 13 of the instructions that came with the gun " Do not dry fire your P-3AT. As with any gun, dry firing should be avoided." I am not sure why the instructions state that.

In a dry fire action, maybe without a primer for the firing pin to hit, then the back portion of the firing pin may strike the bottom of the button head with sufficent force to shear the bottom of the screw or maybe just mess the threads up.

I do have snap caps to run through mine and I do practice using them.

 

[wyo-man]

Welcome.

+1 on the snapcaps. They really help with trigger control.


wyo-man

 

[MSZO]

That's what I see, that maybe without a round in the chamber, the firing pin spring overcompresses, and perhaps makes the fring pin retract more forcefully than desired. But heck, it would probably take hundreds of strikes add up to much. The firing pin does in fact use the buttonhead as a stop, even when there is a round in the chamber. So, I would think that even with proper use, the buttonhead could be taking some hits that could add up to some wear, eventually. Just theorizing.

 

[Packer]

Welcome to KTOG, MSZO!

When there is a cartridge or snap cap in the chamber, the forward travel stop on the firing pin does NOT hit the screw. All of the FP energy is absorbed into the primer or spring loaded snap cap.
The FRONT of the screw takes a slight hit from the rearward travel stop on the rebound though.

When you dryfire WITHOUT anything in the chamber, all of the impact is transferred into the button head screw. This screw is harder now than it USED to be, but it is still not as hard as the firing pin, so it will take a little bit of damage each time.

After pretty many hits, the tip of the screw will be chewed off. That last bit of screw will probably break off during LIVE firing. Once thetip of the screw is gone, NOTHING PREVENTS THE FIRING PIN FROM SHOOTING OUT THE BACK AND HITTING YOU IN THE EYE!

 

[Packer]

  This hardened PF9 button head was dryfired 3 times:

Packer.

 

[MSZO]

I see what you are saying, sort of. What I don't see in the diagrams in the manual, is the rearward stop on the firing pin. Is there one there. It looks to me like the only thing that would stop the forward movement of the firing pin is the firing pin spring, and of course the channel that the pin and spring ride in.

I just don't see anything on the rearward end of the firing pin that could hit the buttonhead as the firing pin moves forward.. Am I looking at the the thing all wrong?

Mike

 

[Packer]

  When the button head is tightened, it is positioned in a channel that forms the forward and rearward stops on the firing pin.

  At the top is a normal firing pin, with forward stop on left, rearward stop on right. At the bottom is a firing pin that has had the forward stop removed:

During normal firing, or with a snap cap, the FTS does NOT contact the BH screw--That can only happen if there is nothing in the chamber to prevent full forward movement of the FP.

Packer.

 

[MSZO]

OK, I see now, the illustration in the manual shows a firing pin with the forward stop "removed." I wonder why that is? This makes sense now. Why would there need to be a forward stop anyhow? Whatever ...

Thanks. Now that I know, I may just go ahead and replace the pin, spring, and buttonhead. And then, never dry fire it!

Mike

 

[Packer]

 Why would there need to be a forward stop anyhow?

The first Kel-Tec P-11s and P-40s HAD no FTS on their firing pins. At some point they were added.

Without a FTS, when you dryfire with empty chamber the firing pin might extend so far out of the breech face that the taper causes it to stick there.

Packer.

5775 Palindrome post.

 

[Guest]

Packer...

Wonderful thread and explanation of the function of the firing pin stops.

Thanks!

 

[MSZO]

Yes, thanks for the explanation. It doesn't take much to mess up screw threads. If the buttonhead has gotten hit a few times, how hard will it be to extract from the slide? The loctite will of course need to be broken loose, but after that?

Anyone had a bad experience with this? I understand that the head can be stripped fairly easily if the wrench is poor.

Mike

 

[Packer]

Yes, thanks for the explanation.  It doesn't take much to mess up screw threads.  If the buttonhead has gotten hit a few times, how hard will it be to extract from the slide?  The loctite will of course need to be broken loose, but after that?  

Anyone had a bad experience with this?  I understand that the head can be stripped fairly easily if the wrench is poor.

Mike

  The screw threads in the slide (with some effort) will rethread the screw threads as it is removed. The screw takes a 15/64 Allen wrench by the way.

  Do NOT remove your old screw until you have ordered the new, hardened screw from kel-Tec Service. (Part #183) This screw, used with the correct 5/64" wrench, will NOT strip its head socket.

Packer.

 

[MSZO]

Thanks - sounds good.