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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently bought a TX22 and after getting decided to install a red dot sight due to being far sighted and having a harder time seeing the decent sights on the TX22, but I was worried that it may not run as smoothly as I want if I did this. Well I took my TX22 after running some 250 rds thru it, which it ate everything I feed it, and installed a AT3 ARO red dot sight which I had lying around, ordered the correct mounting plate for it and installed it. Range testing found after trying different types/brands of ammo I made it a little more picky on ammo but ran reliable on the std velocity ammo regardless of brand. Big relief, so now I ask if you run one on your pistol, which one and why?

My older eyes like the red dot vs the white 3 dot Taurus sights which are decent, but old eyes and being far sighted don't help. Once I started playing with red dot sights lately I noticed all of them seemed to be a little blurry, seems I have a astigmatism in one of my eyes. But still even with this I am more accurate with the red dot vs irons. My ARO sight is a 3.25 MOA red dot sight and works great. Total added weight to the gun was 1.71 ounces which really hasn't seem to affect it's reliability unless I'm using subs in it which I never will really so no loss there. As long as it stays put I think I will keep it there and use it as my "fun gun".

Who's next? Pictures too please.

Wood Grey Automotive tire Walking shoe Floor
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I have tried pistol optics a few times with different brands of optics on different brands of pistols.

1) I just can't seem to get confident that I can find the dot when I need to.
2) I don't want to pay $200-$500 extra to put an optic on every pistol that I might use in a defensive situation. I could be spending that $ on ammo or training.

I know that the current thinking is that electronic optics are the only way to go. All competitions seem to bear that out. Still, it is difficult to change. I am kind of waiting for the competition in the marketplace to give us even better options at even better costs than we have now.

I feel that I will need to change eventually but maybe they will have better options next year...or the next.

What I would love to see is an optic with a Chevron instead of a dot. Holosun and Primary Arms have partnered on a couple of those but they are expensive and have different mounts than their others so they are a bit of a one-off and aren't the latest offerings from HS either.

If they get a Chevron version of the new Holosun SCS that will fit on Smith&Wesson or FN optics ready frames then I will be compelled to try again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I completely understand both points. This is my fun gun, not for self defense, I mean it's just a .22lr. Also I had the optic laying around so all I had to do was buy the correct mounting plate for it and Bingo! I have approx $22 invested in this so it seemed like something worth trying. My older eyes needed something better so I gave it a shot and I like it. But will I do that on more of my pistols.....probably not.
 

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I planted a Sig Romeo Zero on my new Mossberg MC2sc. I chose this for two reasons. First, I have age-related presbyopia and the RDS allows me to not waste time trying to find the right lens in my tri-focals. Second, human biology/psychology dictates the instinct to look at the threat, meaning that focusing on the front sight during adrenal stress works against natural human reactions. An RDS works with the human nature, reducing training and improving success rates.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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I have Holosun 507C optics on 3 of my pistols and a couple of their 510Cs on AR pistols and I really like them. As a previous commenter said, using one on a pistol does take a while to get used to it and finding the dot, but just as with finding the front site in a defensive situation, practice, practice, practice. The repetition will build the same muscle memory with finding the dot. I run suppressor height sights so my dot is basically sitting right on top of the front site.
As for why Holosun? I believe they are the best "bang for the buck", they are reliable, great battery life, solar equipped, and "shake awake" and they have a 2MOA dot with choice of a circle as well.
 

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Also, The first one I got I mounted it on my pistol with an adapter plate as it did not have a cut slide. I used a little blue loctite on the screws and have put 700+ rounds, some of them fairly hot reloads, through it with zero issues.
 

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I really don't have a red dot ready pistol, so it would cost a lot to buy and install one. I have found that fiber optic sights are really nice on range guns.
If you ever wanted to try one without having to by a new slide or gun, try one of the adapter plates from egwguns.com. I have one on a Glock 21 and it works fantastic. Other than raising the height over bore a tiny amount and adding less then an oz it functions like my newer guns with the cut slide.
 

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I recently bought a TX22 and after getting decided to install a red dot sight due to being far sighted and having a harder time seeing the decent sights on the TX22, but I was worried that it may not run as smoothly as I want if I did this. Well I took my TX22 after running some 250 rds thru it, which it ate everything I feed it, and installed a AT3 ARO red dot sight which I had lying around, ordered the correct mounting plate for it and installed it. Range testing found after trying different types/brands of ammo I made it a little more picky on ammo but ran reliable on the std velocity ammo regardless of brand. Big relief, so now I ask if you run one on your pistol, which one and why?

My older eyes like the red dot vs the white 3 dot Taurus sights which are decent, but old eyes and being far sighted don't help. Once I started playing with red dot sights lately I noticed all of them seemed to be a little blurry, seems I have a astigmatism in one of my eyes. But still even with this I am more accurate with the red dot vs irons. My ARO sight is a 3.25 MOA red dot sight and works great. Total added weight to the gun was 1.71 ounces which really hasn't seem to affect it's reliability unless I'm using subs in it which I never will really so no loss there. As long as it stays put I think I will keep it there and use it as my "fun gun".

Who's next? Pictures too please.

View attachment 58070 View attachment 58071
ARD is a sight I use on my Smith and Wesson SDVE 9mm. Works well, but doesn't fit a holster too easily. I like a laser. Much easier to use once sighted in and I have a holster made for it. Looks like you have one already. I now use fiber optic sights, no red dot,and the laser only.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ARD is a sight I use on my Smith and Wesson SDVE 9mm. Works well, but doesn't fit a holster too easily. I like a laser. Much easier to use once sighted in and I have a holster made for it. Looks like you have one already. I now use fiber optic sights, no red dot,and the laser only.
The pistol I choose to install the red dot on is just my fun gun, range toy or whatever you may want to call it. It resides in a case, won't be used for self defense and didn't cost me an arm & a leg. I'm very happy with it, works great with my eyes and if I decide to change, it might take a few minutes to swap over back to irons. I probably won't do this to any other pistol, but I love it on this one.
 

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I really don't have a red dot ready pistol, so it would cost a lot to buy and install one.
What 's your definition of "a lot?" Would you need a brand new pistol or would be mount one on a gun you already have?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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On my 9mm competition handgun I have a Holosun open red dot with solar panels. The gun has tall sights and that's a plus when looking for the dot. Use the sights to get on target (sort of) then transition to the dot once it's seen. It takes a small amount of practice.

I have a competition rimfire w/o irons like the above and it's hell trying to find the dot, also due to the different grip angle. But it's used in a game where I can find the dot then give the "OK , I'm ready.". So it works. But I'm going to move to the CP33 with a cheek weld and a different sight that always aligns. Always. (see next paragraph)

It wasn't asked but red dots align nicely on rifles to include SBRs, and also arm braced handguns. Also cheeked handguns like the CP33. Just set it up correctly so that when it's properly shouldered or brought up one immediately sees the dot. Don't adjust the body to see the dot, instead mount the sight to accommodate the body. I've had folks question the high mounts on my straight recoil stocks. Then they try them and see the light. Back to handguns... they are quite different. If irons can be kept on and raised up it helps alot. So does a huge amount of dry fire practice, and stay with one grip angle to program muscle memory. If only the front sight can be raised that's a help.

I'm a decades old 1911 shooter and changing grip angle with a red dot equipped handgun can be an exercise in searching for the dot. I already gave the solution so I'd be repeating myself. :)
 

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My department offers a red dot training/certification class. In academy, we were issued brand new Gen5 Glock 17 MOS's as our duty pistols, which are able to host a red dot, but because of training time limitations and such (this was early-/mid-2020, right at the start of all the COVID nonsense, our class schedule was beyond messed up), we never got to take that red dot course and were left to try to take it on our own later on. With a few lucky exceptions, everyone who actually wanted to take the class has had to wait due to limitations of staffing and because we're the low ones on the totem pole and folks with seniority generally get first pick on training slots and such. I wanted to take the class, not because I WANT a red dot for sure, but more so to see if I actually like the darned things or not.

I've tried them here and there on my own with folks who've loaned me theirs during some range time and such, but simply finding the reticle is, in and of itself, a huge hurdle to overcome from the get-go. Totally have to retrain one's muscle memory on how to adjust your presentation when bringing the gun up to eye level and such, and I've been using nothing but irons on handguns since ... well ... a pretty friggin' long time. Not saying I'm unwilling or unable to learn, but again, that's a HUGE adjustment for me, right there.

Secondly, I hate things that take batteries. With flashlights, no joke, I carry no less than THREE of them with me on-duty: one big one, one medium, and one lil' guy on my shoulder. (I did have two medium ones, but deleted one recently because it seemed a bit excessive and I wanted to free up some duty belt space.) But I can't very well carry around a spare red dot and just slap it on in an emergency. Sure, I can also add suppressor-height sights that will theoretically co-witness with the red dot, but that's added expense on top of an already expensive red dot (we're already limited to specific brands/models approved for on-duty use, and they're all stupid expensive, like $400+ each). And then you have to buy another holster that fits the whole thing (red dot AND light), which is MORE expense. AND it adds another doohickey device to the holster that you have to train to use (the "hood" part that goes over the red dot). More and more and more retraining and expense.

I get it, for distance shooting (like, beyond 25 yards), they're supposedly quite nice. And supposedly, they're good for old eyes, which I would think I'd gladly appreciate, because my eyesight frankly SUCKS anymore. But it's kind of a point of diminishing returns thing with me still. The cost and retraining issues are big factors, and the benefit doesn't seem to be particularly huge. I work nights. Any engagements I'm bound to have are going to be limited to what I can clearly see by flashlight, and even with the Streamlight TLR-1 HL my duty gun wears, that only goes so far. And even then, with my old eyes, that also only goes so far. Can I shoot out to 15 yards with it? Sure, because I had to do so to pass the night qualification in academy, and I'm confident I could easily do so again. But 15's as far as they make it go for night qual's, and the standard annual qual only goes to 25, and that's only during daylight (or on a fully-lit range). Nowhere in real life are you going to have daylight-level lighting on the street at 2AM, and even in daylight, making a 25-yard shot on a moving subject (especially one that's possibly shooting back) with a pistol is EXTREMELY rare; doing so at night, it's simply unheard of. At night, the only cops potentially shooting at distance are using long guns, usually AR's with stupid-expensive optics (or a handful of folks with Remington 870's and segmented slugs, usually on high-risk stops or barricade scenes), because you don't shoot what you can't see and shooting at shadows is beyond stupid.

Were I to transfer to a day or swing shift, my opinion wouldn't change. I can shoot what I need to accurately enough to be practical. Would a red dot turn me from average or slightly above-average to Jerry Miculek or Bob Munden? I'm not convinced it would. Maybe, MAYBE a slight improvement, but not likely enough to truly justify it as a "need to have" accessory. Doesn't mean I don't still wanna take that class, though - I mean, c'mon, 1,000+ free rounds, more free range time, and lots of dynamic target shooting scenarios? DUH! And more importantly, getting proper training to make an educated choice on whether I really want a red dot on my duty gun or not, yes.

As far as off-duty ... absolutely not. Both my Springfield Hellcat and Pro pistols are red-dot-ready, and I have ZERO plans to add one. With off-duty, I adhere strictly to K.I.S.S. No weapon-mounted flashlights, no optics, no crazy whizbang doohickey gadgets. Just a good, easy-to-pick-up set of iron sights, a comfortable and tacky grip (usually rubberized Talon Grips), a factory magazine in the gun, and the same size or bigger mag as a backup. Priorities off-duty are different than on-duty. The mission is much simpler: stop the threat and/or get the hell outta there, depending on the circumstance. Nothing about affecting an arrest, calling in support, probable cause, search warrants, whether or not a victim desires prosecution, if the bad guy runs around a corner out of sight, etc. etc. etc. ... just basic defense, pure and simple. Inside of 15 yards, I'm golden with iron sights and, if necessary, a handheld flashlight in my off-hand. But if I'm stretching it out, making shots at or beyond 25 yards with a handgun in that context, particularly at night ... ehhhhh ... gonna be kinda hard to justify that legally as "defense", much less justify a need for a red dot and/or a weapon-mounted light in such a case. (I do, however, carry a mid-sized flashlight off-duty, always, always, ALWAYS.) I know, I know, there's the "you're in a mall and there's a mass shooter..." argument that comes up, but that's a whole other can of worms, and even then, not enough to reasonably justify a red dot for CCW (for me), and certainly not a pistol light.

Anyway. Just my long-winded $0.02 on the matter, FWIW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Like I said before, my first (and probably only) red dot sighted pistol is strictly used for range fun. I don't think I could ever trust one with my life so it's just a range toy, but dang I can shoot it so much better for me any way. Any EDC or self defense use pistol will only have night sights of good fiber optics. I even switched one of my rifles to a prism sight due to the ease of getting a good sight picture and reticle on target time. My eyes aren't getting any better so why not. Thanks for all the input on this subject.
 
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