Who said bull-pups arent good for anything?

1654 Views 12 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Dogsandcats, May 25, 2022

Jax1988

Discussion Starter · Apr 27, 2022

This tom came out and was about 25-30 yards to my weak side. I had to switch shoulders to get the gun pointed at him. Muzzle of the shotgun never had to stick out of the blind. Got everything lined up and let her rip. Dropped it! The bull-pup might sacrifice a little bit on range but I doubt I would have been able to harvest this bird if I had a full length shotgun in my lap! Wonderful performance!
Thanks for reading!

Bird Plant Turkey Wild turkey Phasianidae

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dfariswheel

· #2 · Apr 27, 2022

An older NRA Dope Bag test showed that an 18 inch barrel shoots exactly the same as a longer barrel, with the same choke.

The tests indicated that the choke determines the pattern density, and barrel length has no effect.
In short an 18 inch barrel will shot the same as a 36 inch Goose gun if the choke is the same.

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Jax1988

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 27, 2022

dfariswheel said:
An older NRA Dope Bag test showed that an 18 inch barrel shoots exactly the same as a longer barrel, with the same choke.

The tests indicated that the choke determines the pattern density, and barrel length has no effect.
In short an 18 inch barrel will shot the same as a 36 inch Goose gun if the choke is the same.

I agree. I would say range would be the biggest deficiency. My 18.5" bbl with and extra full turkey choke, with 3" #4 turkey loads, put the majority of the pellets in a 6" paper plate at 25 paces. That was good enough for me to take it to the blind...and I'm glad I did! 😁

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BJK

· #4 · Apr 28, 2022

dfariswheel said:
An older NRA Dope Bag test showed that an 18 inch barrel shoots exactly the same as a longer barrel, with the same choke.

The tests indicated that the choke determines the pattern density, and barrel length has no effect.
In short an 18 inch barrel will shot the same as a 36 inch Goose gun if the choke is the same.

Yes, the myth of long barrels and tight groups started with long single shot youth barrels and it just kept being repeated near as I can figure.

Maybe the shot has a minuscule bit more energy at range due to the longer push, but it will be meaningless on target.

I suspect the long single shot youth barrels were made that way to condition new shooters for swing and follow through, but I have no proof of that. I know I never used that method and I was deadly on upland game. I was actually too fast and sometimes had a cloud of just feathers with nothing to pick up with no choke at all. I had to slow down and let the bird get "out there" a bit. But I was using "Quick kill" as learned in the military for jungle warfare.

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dfariswheel

· #5 · Apr 28, 2022

Back in the 1950's Winchester's factory rep attended many shoots and hunts to demonstrate and advertise Winchester shotguns.
He had any Winchester he wanted, including a very high end fancy Winchester Model 21 double.

But for quail hunts he showed up with an ordinary battered Winchester Model 12 with an 18 inch barrel and open Cylinder Bore choke.
While everyone else had to wait for the birds to get far enough away the tight pattern wouldn't blow them to bits, he'd shoot the instant that they came up.
He always got his limit.

The full American Rifleman Dope Bag test used a Marlin Goose Gun with a 36 inch barrel.
The staff mounted an external choke on the gun, patterned it and did velocity tests.
Then they cut the barrel off one inch and re-patterned and velocity tested it.
They continued this until the barrel was at 12 inches.

Their results.......
Barrel length had no effect on pattern. Short barrels patterned the same as longer barrels.
Velocity was the same except when the barrel was over 28 inches, and then they saw a slight velocity loss due to friction.
Nothing "got out of hand" until the barrel was down to 12 inches.
Ballistically anything that was going to happen in a shotgun barrel happened by 18 inches.
A longer barrels sole advantage is that it points and swings better.
The idea that a longer barrel shotgun shot "harder" or farther was a left over from the black powder days when longer barrels did burn the powder more effectively.

Not being a turkey hunter I'd think a KS7 with a add-on tight choke and either a scope or electronic sight would work very well on toms.
The shorter barrel would probably make getting on target easier and without the long barrel moving alerting the bird.

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TGP389

· #6 · May 4, 2022

I'm NOT anti hunting, or trying to put you down. Just my personal feelings, I can't shoot one of those magnificent birds when turkey is so cheap.

I remember seeing two of them trying to out-strut each other in the field down the road one morning. What a beautiful sight.

I guess the other side of the coin is that they're once again plentiful. I grew up when they weren't. I was 30 before I saw one in the wild, and I grew up in rural Florida.

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Jax1988

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 4, 2022 (Edited)

TGP389 said:
I'm NOT anti hunting, or trying to put you down. Just my personal feelings, I can't shoot one of those magnificent birds when turkey is so cheap.

I remember seeing two of them trying to out-strut each other in the field down the road one morning. What a beautiful sight.

I guess the other side of the coin is that they're once again plentiful. I grew up when they weren't. I was 30 before I saw one in the wild, and I grew up in rural Florida.

I don't fault anyone who chooses not to hunt. We also raise beef and we need people that buy all their food from the store too 😉. I promise you this though...you can't duplicate wild turkey meat with anything store bought. It is NOT the same animal as what they raise for the stores to use.

I'm the sole bread winner in my family and I have 6 mouths to feed. With the effects of the Biden economy hitting hard, I have to supplement my freezer with wild game. My kids are only getting bigger and as they get old enough to hunt and fish, I will be teaching them as well. We are always grateful for the harvest and give thanks before each meal.

Where I grew up (mid Missouri) its a way of life. And I can appreciate their beauty also. From sitting for hours in nature and taking in the sounds, to the stories we tell of when we harvested that buck or turkey or fish. I assure you that the circle i run in are all ethical hunters and we appreciate what the animals mean to us. And that's also why I mount the tails and big bucks...so I can keep on appreciating them! 🤣

Cheers!

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Borderboss

· #8 · May 4, 2022

I believe the long barrel thing is based on it being easier to take longer shots with more precision for targets such as waterfowl. With the advent of red dot sights, that's no longer true.

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TGP389

· #9 · May 7, 2022

Jax1988 said:
I don't fault anyone who chooses not to hunt. We also raise beef and we need people that buy all their food from the store too 😉....

As I said, I'm not anti hunting. I've hunted deer, quail, ducks and geese. And I don't mind that you hunt turkey. That's for crazy tree hugging Karens. I just don't do turkeys. I guess it's because they were so rare around here when I grew up.

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torrent

· #10 · May 9, 2022

Man, that's a great turkey you got. Congratulations on getting it with an unusual choice of shotguns too! I learned a lot from this thread in terms of shotgun performance.

Nice job! Wild turkey breast is some fo the best game bird meat IMO.

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BJK

· #11 · May 9, 2022

Jax1988 said:
I don't fault anyone who chooses not to hunt. We also raise beef and we need people that buy all their food from the store too 😉.

That's what I do. I want the meat grown in the plastic wrap! I don't want to be connected to killing anything!

Just kidding. Some leftist actually wrote that as a letter to the editor and she was 100% serious. I couldn't make this up if I tried.

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BrassMonkey

· #12 · May 11, 2022

Canoe and a Bow. Yes, it is a preferred way to go in Midwest Turkey hunting these birds while they are morning roosting in the nearby trees. Flu-flu arrows just drop them like a bad habit and no shotgun needed.

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Dogsandcats

· #13 · May 25, 2022

dfariswheel said:
Back in the 1950's Winchester's factory rep attended many shoots and hunts to demonstrate and advertise Winchester shotguns.
He had any Winchester he wanted, including a very high end fancy Winchester Model 21 double.

But for quail hunts he showed up with an ordinary battered Winchester Model 12 with an 18 inch barrel and open Cylinder Bore choke.
While everyone else had to wait for the birds to get far enough away the tight pattern wouldn't blow them to bits, he'd shoot the instant that they came up.
He always got his limit.

The full American Rifleman Dope Bag test used a Marlin Goose Gun with a 36 inch barrel.
The staff mounted an external choke on the gun, patterned it and did velocity tests.
Then they cut the barrel off one inch and re-patterned and velocity tested it.
They continued this until the barrel was at 12 inches.

Their results.......
Barrel length had no effect on pattern. Short barrels patterned the same as longer barrels.
Velocity was the same except when the barrel was over 28 inches, and then they saw a slight velocity loss due to friction.
Nothing "got out of hand" until the barrel was down to 12 inches.
Ballistically anything that was going to happen in a shotgun barrel happened by 18 inches.
A longer barrels sole advantage is that it points and swings better.
The idea that a longer barrel shotgun shot "harder" or farther was a left over from the black powder days when longer barrels did burn the powder more effectively.

Not being a turkey hunter I'd think a KS7 with a add-on tight choke and either a scope or electronic sight would work very well on toms.
The shorter barrel would probably make getting on target easier and without the long barrel moving alerting the bird.

I absolutely did not know this. Great information, thank you!

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