[kraigster414]

I'd really like to hear from owners or users of both the P3AT and the NAA Guardian .380. not second hand/third hand "I have a friend who has a friend who had one.... " I know the Guardian is a heavier gun, that's a given. I am primarily interested in a durability/functionality comparison. Thanks guys.

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Darn. I thought this would make for an interesting and informative thread. Oh well.

 

[Sangueffusor]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

If you look back about 10-20 pages in the list of threads in this forum, you'll find a fairly recent thread about this.

 

[MikeD]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Try the search function as well for "NAA Guardian". You'll probably mostly get hits on the magazine extensions, but I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

 

[marshall]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

There's no such thing as an unbiased opinion, in my unbiased opinion. ;D

 

[MikeD]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

There's no such thing as an unbiased opinion, in my unbiased opinion. ;D

Ah, yes! I forgot about the "Marshallinator"...

www.mouseguns.com is a great site for reading about a great many pocket guns. I don't remember there being any side by side comparisons, but rather fairly in depth reviews on individual guns. But, it's been a long time since I've visited that site...

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Thank you Mike. The site was helpful.

 

[TxCajun]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Probably you've been here, but just in case...

http://www.naaminis.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Probably you've been here, but just in case...

http://www.naaminis.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi

A reminder is always good Tex. Thanks.

 

[Bobo]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Never actually owned a Guardian, but here's my take on the subject for what it's worth...

I was about ready to purchase a Guardian .380 about a year and a half ago. That's when I first made the Pocket Semi-Auto Comparison chart to help me in my search.
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

At that time the P-3ATs were still very iffy NIB, and being new to gun ownership I didn't want to have to learn how to fix a gun in addition to all the other stuff I was trying to learn.

I didn't want to spend more money than I had to either, that's why I liked the P-3AT. The con on the P-3AT was it wasn't reliable, and the cons on the Guardian were it cost a lot more and it was heavy.

The Guardian at the time was more reliable NIB, that's why I liked the Guardian.

I was ready to plunk my money down on the Guardian when providence intervened, Kel-Tec fixed the ramp problem and fixed the extractor problem at about the same time. The newest SG P-3ATs were now very reliable. And ArmaLaser came out with a laser for the P-3AT. That turned the tide, I got my P-3AT. One of the best buying decisions I ever made.


Today, I believe they compare like this:

Reliability = (a tie).
Ammo options = (a tie).
Number of rounds = (a tie).
Size = Guardian wins slightly in length - P-3AT wins slightly in width. = (a tie).
Weight = (P-3AT wins handily).
Trigger Pull = (P-3AT wins handily)
Cost = (P-3AT wins handily).
Appearance = (this is subjective, but I think the Guardian looks nicer).
Factory Options = (Guardian wins handily).
Laser sight option = (P-3AT wins handily).
Warranty = (a tie).
--------------------------
Ties = 5
Guardian wins = 2
P-3AT wins = 4

Bottom line…
If you want a pretty gun that you can have factory customized and price and weight are not big issues then it's the Guardian.
If you want a light gun that costs little, looks is not high on the priority list, and you can add a laser then it's the P-3AT.

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Never actually owned a Guardian, but here's my take on the subject for what it's worth...

I was about ready to purchase a Guardian .380 about a year and a half ago. That's when I first made the Pocket Semi-Auto Comparison chart to help me in my search.
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.jpg

At that time the P-3ATs were still very iffy NIB, and being new to gun ownership I didn't want to have to learn how to fix a gun in addition to all the other stuff I was trying to learn.

I didn't want to spend more money than I had to either, that's why I liked the P-3AT. The con on the P-3AT was it wasn't reliable, and the cons on the Guardian were it cost a lot more and it was heavy.

The Guardian at the time was more reliable NIB, that's why I liked the Guardian.

I was ready to plunk my money down on the Guardian when providence intervened, Kel-Tec fixed the ramp problem and fixed the extractor problem at about the same time. The newest SG P-3ATs were now very reliable. And ArmaLaser came out with a laser for the P-3AT. That turned the tide, I got my P-3AT. One of the best buying decisions I ever made.


Today, I believe they compare like this:

Reliability = (a tie).
Ammo options = (a tie).
Number of rounds = (a tie).
Size = Guardian wins slightly in length - P-3AT wins slightly in width. = (a tie).
Weight = (P-3AT wins handily).
Trigger Pull = (P-3AT wins handily)
Cost = (P-3AT wins handily).
Appearance = (this is subjective, but I think the Guardian looks nicer).
Factory Options = (Guardian wins handily).
Laser sight option = (P-3AT wins handily).
Warranty = (a tie).
--------------------------
Ties = 5
Guardian wins = 2
P-3AT wins = 4

Bottom line…
If you want a pretty gun that you can have factory customized and price and weight are not big issues then it's the Guardian.
If you want a light gun that costs little, looks is not high on the priority list, and you can add a laser then it's the P-3AT.

Bobo, thanks much! That was the kind of response I was hoping for.

 

[TxCajun]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

K:  I have shot a friend's Guardian a couple of times and compared it side by side with P3s.  The Guardian is considerably heavier in the pocket...  enough that it bothered me.  But that may be a factor of what you are used to.  What I really disliked most about the Guardian was the 10 lb trigger pull.  Too bad the Seecamp 380s are hard to get and so darned expensive.  I think they are probably well worth considering too, but darn, they now cost about the same as a Rohrbaugh, approaching a grand!.  



NAA Guardian 380
Specifications:

Caliber: .380 ACP
Magazine Capacity: 6+1
Operation: Double Action Only
Material: 17-4 pH stainless steel
Barrel Length: 2.49"
Height: 3.53"
Overall Length: 4.75"
Width: 0.930"
Weight: 18.72 ozs. unloaded
Suggested Retail Price: $449.00
SRP for ILS (CA) Model: $479.00
Trigger Pull: 10.0 LBS.


Keltec P3AT
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
 
Calibers :  .380 AUTO  
Weight unloaded lbs. :  8.3 oz.  
Loaded magazine :  2.8 oz.  
Length :  5.2"
Height :  3.5"
Width :  .77"
Sight radius : 3.8"
Muzzle Energy Max :  250 ft lbs  
Capacity :  6 + 1 rounds  
Trigger Pull :  5lbs

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Tex, I had a Seecamp .380 on order (typically a 1-year wait from the factory) but cancelled it after I heard the little gem, despite its outstanding quality, is darn painful to shoot and I buy guns to shoot. They can be found periodically at the online auction sites if one needs instant gratification for around 8 bills. As for the NAA Guardian in .380, it weighs more than my Kahr PM9 which packs a bigger punch albeit larger. 'Guess I will just hold on to my 1st and 2nd Gen P3ATS, designated (by me) strictly backup guns, not to be fired a lot. I know this is counter to what many here subscribe too but that's my take on the intended purpose/design of the P32/P3AT. Having said that, both my P3ATs have proven reliable and I have confidence they would go bang in a worst case scenario. For carry, I still rely on my Glock 27 and just purchased HK P2000.

My wish would be for a .380 a little heavier than the P3AT to better absorb recoil but lighter than the Guardian, alloy frame, same size as the P3AT or smaller, and proven reliability. And oh yeah, decent sights just for the heck of it. Price point? My sweet spot is under 4 bills. Make one and they will come.

 

[TxCajun]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

I susbcribe to your carry a lot, shoot a little philosophy on Kel-tec pistols. They are obvisously designed to be as small and light as possible which of course requires compromise. They are certainly not range pounders. If you don't mind the extra weight and thickness, the Guardian might work out for you. They should be able to take more of a pounding and are around your price point. Maybe try a used one first? Great warranty/service like Keltec.

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Thanks Tex. It's just hard to justify a Guardian when I already have a PM9. Then again, one can never have too many toys.

 

[Rotorflyr]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

I went back and forth on this myself and finally decided to go with the Kel-Tec,
My take on it is this:

For me neither would be used as a primary* carry piece.

The NAA is a nice solid little gun, but for it's size it's heavy (and I carry a Para CCO most of the time which is 32oz empty) It looks good, likely feels better to shoot then the 3AT as it's more solid and due to it's weight should absorb recoil a little better.

The 3AT is small, light, sits in the pocket like it isn't even there. It looks ok, kinda toy like, but then as long as it goes "Bang" when I need it to, and hits (very near) where I want it to, I don't care what it looks like.

Neither are intended to be range guns, neither are intended for "distance defense", they are in your face, shove it in the gut kinda noise makers, both will do that (and likely well), so why spend the extra $$ for a heavier "prettier" gun.


I also (very) briefly considered the Seecamp and an AMT, both of which are dang near impossible to find in my area, and I at least wanted to check one out in person before pulling the trigger (pun intended) on my purchase.

I am/was also intersted in the Skyy MPX-9 (which may or may not ever see the light of day)
MPX-9  P3AT
Caliber = 9mm Caliber = .380
Length = 5.3     Length = 5.2
Height = 3.65    Height = 3.5
Width = .80 Width = .77
Weight = 12oz   Weight = 8.3 oz
Trigger - double strike capability Trigger - double action
Capacity 6+1    Capacity 6+1
MSRP $389.00   MSRP $324-$382



Anyway, (as should be obvious) I went with the 3AT as it does exactly what I need/want it to and seems to do it well (have 100rds thru it so far, stovepiped twice in the first 25rds, no problems with the next 75)

*though there are instances where I would/will carry it as primary, it's main purpose is as a BUG

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Good points all Rotor. I just thought with the Guardian I'd be more inclined to shoot it more vs. my P3AT, the latter a gun I am hell-bent on not pushing the envelope. I don't want to have to send any more guns back to the factory for service. Been there done that and it's a PITA. It's inconvenient and makes me a nervous wreck regardless of who picks up the tab. You are further correct that none of these guns are target pieces but that doesn't mean they still can't be a lot fun at the range.

 

[Rotorflyr]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

kraigster,
If you want a "small, fun, range gun" there are a number of choices out there beyond the Guardian and 3AT (and you're right these little buggers can still be fun at the range ;D) including .22's

If you want a small pocket gun for primary carry (and are willing to scarifice caliber) I'd probably go with the Guardian, as it will likely be less punishing to practice with (though I still wouldn't "push the envelope" with it either).

If you want a small, light weight arm to use mainly as a bug or an "always with you" gun, then you're better off (imo) with the Kel-tec as when it's in your pocket you barely notice it's there.

I guess you really need to figure out for yourself what you want it for and how it's mainly going to be used, then decide which fits the bill best.

 

[kraigster414]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

kraigster,
If you want a "small, fun, range gun" there are a number of choices out there beyond the Guardian and 3AT (and you're right these little buggers can still be fun at the range ;D) including .22's

If you want a small pocket gun for primary carry (and are willing to scarifice caliber) I'd probably go with the Guardian, as it will likely be less punishing to practice with (though I still wouldn't "push the envelope" with it either).

If you want a small, light weight arm to use mainly as a bug or an "always with you" gun, then you're better off (imo) with the Kel-tec as when it's in your pocket you barely notice it's there.

I guess you really need to figure out for yourself what you want it for and how it's mainly going to be used, then decide which fits the bill best.

Rotor, for a newbie, you show "wisdom of the ages." Good posts, keep at it. I don't post much anymore - I've been know to ruffle a feather or two now and then . Folks like you keep things alive. Thanks much!

 

[Rotorflyr]

Re: Unbiased comparison - P3AT and the NAA Guard.

Rotor, for a newbie, you show "wisdom of the ages."  Good posts, keep at it.  

Thanks, while I may be a newbie to posting here, I've lurked for quite a while and am not a newbie to forums in general (gun/auto/aviation etc.......) and yeah, once in a while I come up with something good..........

I don't post much anymore - I've been know to ruffle a feather or two now and then .  Folks like you keep things alive. Thanks much!

For the most part I tend to read more then post, even on boards I'm a long time member of and usually wait til I hit at least 15-20 posts before I start to ruffle any feathers  ;D ;D