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One of the gun traders at the show came by with several small guns. Most were small, worn potmetal autos. He wanted to swap some for a good field 12 ga pump gun. I had a fair Mav. 88 field gun I got in a swap last year, but I didn't care for the guns he had, maybe a .380. Only one he had was the TCP. Hent and got it. It only had one mag, so I told him he would have to give me 20 bucks for the missing mag. Gun was laike new with the box, lock keys, & papers. He said it was unfired. Whatever!!! Well, it oooked like it. He finally agreed. I fired the little gun today with hardball. It ripped off a few mag as fast as I could pull the trigger with no hangups. My son was there and he wants it.

 

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I have never fired one of the little dudes but have fondled them at the LGS. Even though this is a Kel Tec forum I have to admit that, if this had been around when I bought my P3AT, I might have gone with the Taurus, instead. It fits/feels better in my hand and just looking at it I think I would like the sights better (even though they still are pretty tiny.) As it is, though, I have the P3AT, have gotten pretty used to it and don't have the need for another pocket .380 so I just let it pass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey JAB,

Thanks for printing my pic. Feel free to do the others.

I found it to be good enough. I have fired a P3AT some years back. It was probably a first gen gun. The owner had to send it back to KT for some reason. Same for a P11. The guy said that one shoot too far to one side. They were both early guns. I bought the P11 from him .

I ahve also owned a KT P32 and the Taurus TCP in .32. They both worked very well. No problems with either gun. I just ain't much on the .32. Got thim in swaps. I was going to buy a Ruger LCp, but the TCP .380 will do for now and it did I ain't got much in it. As long as it goes bang every time, I am o.k. with it. Gotta find another mag now.
 

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For .380's, I went with Fiocchi Extrema for ammo. Based on this guys testing:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts[/ame]

.380 is still on the marginal end for self-defense IMHO, so I wanted to go with something most likely to stop a bad guy. I don't carry .380's routinely, but have two that might get pressed into service some day. So I bought defensive ammo for them and did some of my own testing (for reliability, I am not equipped to test terminal performance).

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...n-hornady-xtp-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-25
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm not much on the .380 either. I would rather have something with a big hole up front. However, ya just can't hide the big ones very well. Well, I can't. The Kahr CW45 was o.k. till ya loaded it. Then it got heavy too. I use to carry a Bersa .380 for a long time. It just didn't make much sense to carry it when I got an LC9. The gun fit in the same holster and was lighter. It's not a .40 or .45, but it's better than the tiny .380s.

Still think about the Kahr CW45, but the extra weight just insn't worth it. Also thought about the Glock 36, but it would probably be much he same as the Kahr. Too much weight.

If I keep the TCP, it will only be to stick in the picket of my shorts when I take the dog out or something like that. No holster to mess with.
 

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Still think about the Kahr CW45, but the extra weight just insn't worth it.
I agree that CW45 is too heavy for pockets. Also, in most pants the butt sticks out of a front pocket, so I mostly use a shirt untucked, which makes it a walk-to-mailbox configuration. For daily use, I got myself a shoulder system for P45/CW45, which is very comfortable, even with 2 spare magazines on the other side. I just wish there was a way to get flush-fit magazines. My attempts to adapt 1911 magazines ended poorly.

As far as TCP goes, it served as the core for Taurus Curve. Unfortunately, magazines are not interchangeable because of Curve's bottom release.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree that CW45 is too heavy for pockets. Also, in most pants the butt sticks out of a front pocket, so I mostly use a shirt untucked, which makes it a walk-to-mailbox configuration. For daily use, I got myself a shoulder system for P45/CW45, which is very comfortable, even with 2 spare magazines on the other side. I just wish there was a way to get flush-fit magazines. My attempts to adapt 1911 magazines ended poorly.

As far as TCP goes, it served as the core for Taurus Curve. Unfortunately, magazines are not interchangeable because of Curve's bottom release.
I didn't even try to modify 1911 mags for flush fit. Ijust carried 7 or 8 rounders as extras. I figured a few more rounds was better if there was ever a SHTF situation.

Chances are that I will go with a Ruger LCP later down the road. I already have the LC9s and gave the first LC9 Ihad to my son. Took me a good while to locate a second mag for the first one. I can find plenty of the Ruger mags for the LCP, but not the LC9s.

Might try carrying the S&W Shield for a while cause I got 2 mags for it. It's just a bit thicker. That's about it. The LC9s is just a bit large for pocket carry.
 

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Personally, I don't feel 'unarmed' with a .380. My most carried pocket gun now - in fact, my most carried gun - is my S&W 642. Still, the P3AT gets pocket carried, some, in pants where the pockets just don't fit the 642 as well. I am comfortable with .380 for self defense because I figure that, honestly, most assailants are going to stop after you shoot them once with anything and any assailant that won't - say, one that feels no pain and is temporarily 'superhuman' because of some kind of drug use - probably isn't going to stop for anything short of a 12 gauge with 00 buckshot. In other words, I think that a (lucky) CNS shot with a .380 will stop an assailant just as quickly as a (lucky) CNS shot with a 9mm, .45, etc., a marginal shot with a .380 is just as capable of causing a 'psychological' stoppage as a 9mm, .45, etc. and a 9mm, .45, etc. isn't that much if any more likely to cause a 'psychological' stop on a drugged-out or crazy/determined assailant than a .380. Of course, that is just my opinion. I also have to consider that, for something of a size/weight that I can carry it in my pocket or that will even completely disappear in an OWB holster the .380 and .38 are a lot more controllable - meaning more accurate and faster follow up shots - than a 9mm, .45, .357 and so on of the same or very similar size and weight. That is part of the reason I sometimes like to carry my CZ 82. Yeah, it is pretty much as big as some of the small 9mm Luger pistols, it isn't super light (but not super heavy, either) and 9mm Makarov is probably not that much more powerful than a .380 but I can shoot the heck out of that CZ quickly and accurately and it carries 12 rounds in a flush fit mag so 12+1 total capacity. I still carry old-school Federal Hydra shoks in the P3AT as tests I have seen indicate it gives some expansion, albeit not huge expansion, and consistently deep penetration. I managed to pick up a couple of boxes of 9mm Mak Critical Defense for the CZ.

None of that is to say that I never carry anything bigger but in warmer months when I don't want to constantly wear a cover garment, etc. - which with the combination of me being hot-natured and the average temp in Tennessee works out to be 8 months or so out of the year - I usually prefer pocket carry, always with a pocket holster. That is just me, though.
 

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What concerns me more these days is not, "Is it a .380, a 9mm, a .40 or a .45?", but rather "Does it hold 5, 10 or 15 rounds?" You can almost treat a .380 like a spare magazine, and stuff a couple of them in various pockets. I'd rather have one or two large magazines. However, that makes those large mags and the larger firearms that accept them difficult to conceal.
 

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What concerns me more these days is not, "Is it a .380, a 9mm, a .40 or a .45?", but rather "Does it hold 5, 10 or 15 rounds?" You can almost treat a .380 like a spare magazine, and stuff a couple of them in various pockets. I'd rather have one or two large magazines. However, that makes those large mags and the larger firearms that accept them difficult to conceal.
Capacity is the biggest reason I sometimes prefer to carry something 'bigger'. For the majority of the places I go on a regular basis - mostly small towns - I really believe that the 5 shot capacity of the 642 is 'enough'. Sometimes, though, having 15+1 on board with a spare 15 in a mag is comforting. As they say, quantity has a quality of its own. Also, I do have one of Kel Tec's 8 shot extended mags for the P3AT that sometimes gets carried as the backup mag - not in the gun but as a backup. It is still pretty small and light.
 

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Hey JAB,

Fed Hydra Shocks is what I carried in my Bersa .380 before I started carrying the LC9. Still hav some buried in my ammo stash. Might try some in the TCP to see how they work.
The reason I got started with them was that they were the only JHP I could find that worked reliably in my first gen P3AT. If I recall, a lot of folks found that they worked better in the first gen P3AT than other offerings available at the time, long before the .380 pocket gun craze brought about the development of newer .380 JHP, because the OAL was different than most .380 JHP. I can't remember if it was longer or shorter but there was a difference that seemed to make it work better in first gen P3ATs. I bought the P3AT brand new as a first gen (which should tell you how long I have had it) but after it gave me a long list of problems I sent it back to the factory and they returned it as a second gen built on the first gen frame (I think the frame was just about the only thing they didn't end up replacing.) It has since given no issues but as I have already invested the $$$ in reliability testing the Hydra Shoks and as they still seem to stack up pretty favorably in ammo reviews I have just stuck with them.
 

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One thing I hear consistently with regard to the TCP .380 is the shootability over other pocket .380s. I wouldn't part with my flawless P3AT for one but the TCP does feel good in the hand. My sister in law has one as her edc and my nephew uses it as a range toy.
 
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