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How is the Sub2K recoil?

  • Too much felt recoil. I shoot standing/off-hand.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Too much felt recoil. I shoot bench rested.

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • The recoil is no big deal. I shoot standing/off-hand.

    Votes: 22 88.0%
  • The recoil is no big deal. I shoot bench rested.

    Votes: 7 28.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some owners have complained that the Sub2K has a bit too much-felt recoil for a 9mm carbine. Others think those complaining are weenies. I suspect it depends on how you tend to shoot the rifle and the distance to your target.

Please answer this poll based on your shooting experience with the rifle and reply with any additional information about the way you shoot with your carbine and what modification you may have made to it (ie. MCarbo Recoil Buffer). Please refrain from judging or shaming respondents. We're all Sub2K shooters.
 

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I don't think they're weenies. I just don't think they've shot very much, and possibly don't know how to shoulder the gun properly. I also wonder if they're using the "bazooka" hold where just a small portion of the butt rests on their shoulder. Too, if it's not held in firmly it will punch the flesh.
 

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I use my sub2k mostly for Steel challenge type matches and don't notice the recoil either using a raised dot sight or using factory iron. Also no problem shooting off a bench.

It is kind of strange because I am usually sensitive to recoil.
 

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I use my sub2k mostly for Steel challenge type matches and don't notice the recoil either using a raised dot sight or using factory iron. Also no problem shooting off a bench.

It is kind of strange because I am usually sensitive to recoil.
It's not strange at all; you made the gun fit you rather than you fitting the gun. The raised line of sight means you can (must?) put the butt of the gun where it's supposed to be... in the shoulder cup. Without that the gun needs to be raised up in the bazooka hold.
 

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The highest energy recoiling round in a 9mm carbine nudges at just over 1 ft bl of recoil. Recoil has never entered my mind other than the lack there of shooting 9mm, 357 mag or 45acp PCC. The 44mag will give you a push but nothing remotly brutal. You need a fifth choice, what recoil? The sub does have poor ergonomics so that may be somewhat of a factor here but I think we sometimes talk ourselves into things based on expectations. Generations were told the 45acp was a wrist breaker. While lively it is fairly tame in the scheme of things..... Here is a chart to add some perspective. Personally I find blast is more of a negative factor than recoil and in that department the 9mm carbine is also pretty weak.

 

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It's not strange at all; you made the gun fit you rather than you fitting the gun. The raised line of sight means you can (must?) put the butt of the gun where it's supposed to be... in the shoulder cup. Without that the gun needs to be raised up in the bazooka hold.
Raising the sight does help, but I have no problem with the factory sight either.
 

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I may have to change my vote later this year, I'm getting "Comprehensive Reverse Shoulder Replacement" surgery this month. That's where they put the ball on the shoulder and the cup on the arm instead of the way nature intended.

I use a recoil pad anyway, I didn't notice a lot of recoil but the waffle pattern on the butt left a similar pattern on my shoulder the 1st time I shot it, the recoil pad took quick care of that. Now with this new joint I'm getting I won't know exactly what I'll be able to do for several months. I also drilled out the peep hole to 3/16" just to see what it would do, didn't have a problem acquiring the target before but it made it easier to pick the target up.
 

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I'm glad to hear some people have no problem with the recoil of the Sub 2K. I wish I was one of them. IMHO, it's not the amount of recoil, it's the type of recoil. IMHO, in theory there is no way a 9 mm carbine should have the amount of snap the Sub 2K has. I should have taken pictures of the bruising on my shoulder prior to modifying the gun.

I've installed the Kel-Tec brass bolt, M-Carbo heavy charging handle, recoil buffer pad and tried both the M-Carbo and Missouri Tactical recoil pads. Ultimately I have resorted to wearing a PAST shoulder pad.

I love the gun and will keep it because it's light, 100% reliable, accurate and very concealable. Maybe a high mount optic would allow for better positioning for me?
 

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I'm willing to bet you're not shouldering the gun properly and thereby reducing the area required to cushion the recoil. So yes, a high optic will tend to lower the rifle from a bazooka hold where the butt hovers way too high, so that the terrible sighting arrangement can be put into play, into something that fits our physique a bit better. But you can check it out for yourself. Be 100% certain the firearm is unloaded and then shoulder it assuming the position you would use if you're shooting it in live fire. Look at where the gun is in relation to your body and be totally honest with yourself about it. Or go about it another way... Shoulder the gun properly with the butt fully engaged with the shoulder pocket and firmly pulled back into it. Can you see the sights? If not you know that you're shooting it, consciously or unconsciously, with the bazooka hold. Oh, and on pulling it back firmly into the shoulder pocket? Doing so greatly reduces the recoil felt. If we didn't do that we could never fire the really big stuff and I assure you that a 9mm is not really big. In a 4 pound gun it has virtually no recoil to be concerned about. We're all built pretty much the same with appendages in the same place. What I'm telling you has worked for centuries and millions of rifle users.

Pulling it firmly into the shoulder pocket has other benefits. It will greatly lower the time to recover from the recoil allowing for faster follow up shots. With the butt having a firm place to rest accuracy will also be increased. Having the butt floating in space is just wrong and not the way rifles are meant to be used.

The gun comes complete with sights, but IMO they're just wrong for the way the human body is designed. They'd work great if we had eyeballs much lower in our heads, but that's not the way we're built. The gun should come sans open sights but with a riser and a micro red dot installed. But that would add a few hundred dollars to the cost and keep many people from buying them. Lots of new owners just don't understand that the rifle needs these things to be usable with a proper fit.

edit: Jimmy, it's also OK to dry fire the gun at home to make sure that when you do live fire that you shoulder the gun properly. You're not going to hurt the rifle with dry fire. Just make sure the gun is unloaded and don't have any ammo near. What you want to concentrate on is properly shouldering it and by that I mean the butt of the gun should be solidly in the shoulder pocket and not hovering over it. If the gun doesn't fit you, and no straight line recoil gun fits anyone without significantly raised sights, then you need to make it fit. For myself I find that a 1" riser and the micro red dot on top of that works best for me. But others might like a 3/4" riser. But they're inexpensive so buy one of each and you have the solution. To start dry firing start slowly to get things 100% correct, then if you want to you can slowly increase the speed but keeping the shouldering correct. If it gets sloppy then slow down and always finish the session by doing it correctly.

Regarding the raised sight, I've had fellow competitors comment on it because it looks strange. But once they try it they all state something like, "Gee, the sights are right there.". And no head/neck contortions to see them either. It makes a huge difference.

Ebay and Amazon have risers. I like the UTG brand because they aren't expensive and they're made right. They have an ultra-light model that works fine for a micro red dot without undue weight.
 

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Thanks for the advise BJK. I tried shouldering the Sub 2K properly without regard for the sight picture. Sure enough, I have to crane my neck way down into an unnatural position for sighting. I'll do some experimenting at the range and report back within the next month.

I don't mind buying an optic and might do that but each mount seems to have drawbacks. The M-Carbo swivel mount seems best.
 

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I'm happy to help. We all are. The sub2k should NOT be hurting due to recoil.

The sub2k is made to force people to use a bazooka hold. That's a shame because lots of folks who just don't know, buy it as a first rifle, and are turned off by it.

I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the mounts anyone has ever heard of. Every one of them has folks here that have used any you're interested in. If you like the Sub2k now you'll absolutely love it with an optic in place and at the right height. I can't imagine any mount that won't raise the optic up enough for proper eye height. What I wrote about risers... OK, BS, I forgot the gun I was mounting a sight on (senior moment!). But yes the optic will be high over the gun. My sight has a low base (picatinny rail mount) attached and mounted it's at the right height. I mount the gun properly and my eye is looking through the sight; it's right there.

Re: optics, of course you can spend big bux on one (>$700) but that's not necessary unless you really want to or have a special use. A really good one can be had for $300ish, but an entirely serviceable good one can be had for $100ish. But those prices were before the panic, I have no idea what has happened in the past year to prices or even availability. I think the one on mine was $100-$140ish and it works fine. The thing to look for is how bright the reticle is. The really cheap ones don't get bright enough for bright noonday sun and they just eat up batteries. A worst case for a sight is noonday with snow on the ground. If it passes that test it's good to go.

I once had a buddy who would buy really nice rifles and then buy the cheapest garbage sight he could find. One day he came over to shoot on a bright day. The reticle could not be seen turned up to max' brightness. The entire system was useless because he didn't buy a good sight. I've been known to put a sight on a firearm that costs as much as the gun.

You can ask about what you're interested here, both sight and mount, or, and you need to be careful, youtube does have reviews. Just be careful of the armchair commandos.
 

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Some owners have complained that the Sub2K has a bit too much-felt recoil for a 9mm carbine. Others think those complaining are weenies. I suspect it depends on how you tend to shoot the rifle and the distance to your target.

Please answer this poll based on your shooting experience with the rifle and reply with any additional information about the way you shoot with your carbine and what modification you may have made to it (ie. MCarbo Recoil Buffer). Please refrain from judging or shaming respondents. We're all Sub2K shooters.
I'm a 75 yr old weenie and I don't think the Sub2k has particularly unpleasent recoil. I also shoot a Ruger PC Carbine and a CZ scorpion. The Sub2K has what I call "sharp" recoil compared to the other 9mm carbines, but I have always chalked that up to its lighter weight. But certainly not too much!
 

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I may have to change my vote later this year, I'm getting "Comprehensive Reverse Shoulder p

" surgery this month. That's where they put the ball on the shoulder and the cup on the arm instead of the way nature intended.

I use a recoil pad anyway, I didn't notice a lot of recoil but the waffle pattern on the butt left a similar pattern on my shoulder the 1st time I shot it, the recoil pad took quick care of that. Now with this new joint I'm getting I won't know exactly what I'll be able to do for several months. I also drilled out the peep hole to 3/16" just to see what it would do, didn't have a problem acquiring the target before but it made it easier to pick the target up.
I also had a
I may have to change my vote later this year, I'm getting "Comprehensive Reverse Shoulder Replacement" surgery this month. That's where they put the ball on the shoulder and the cup on the arm instead of the way nature intended.

I use a recoil pad anyway, I didn't notice a lot of recoil but the waffle pattern on the butt left a similar pattern on my shoulder the 1st time I shot it, the recoil pad took quick care of that. Now with this new joint I'm getting I won't know exactly what I'll be able to do for several months. I also drilled out the peep hole to 3/16" just to see what it would do, didn't have a problem acquiring the target before but it made it easier to pick the target up.
I'm with you on that! I also had Comprehensive Reverse Shoulder Replacement Surgery, and at my advanced age a Missouri Tactical Recoil Pad helps. I also added a 1/2" spacer under my red dot. That helped as well!
 

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BJK, I took your suggestion and focused on proper shoulder position prior to aligning the sights. Acquiring a good sight picture was no more difficult. I shot 100 rounds yesterday with acceptable recoil.

I'm 64 years old and grew up hunting starting at 8 so I'm not new to long guns. Apparently you can teach an old dog new tricks! Lol BTW, I'm 6' 195lb and lift upper body weights 12 hours per week so don't call me a skinny weenie, just a plain old weenie! I don't enjoy painful hobbies though!

A gun range employee suggested a fore grip helps mitigate recoil with the Sub 2K. I just didn't want to junk the gun up with accessories but...
 

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BJK, I took your suggestion and focused on proper shoulder position prior to aligning the sights. Acquiring a good sight picture was no more difficult. I shot 100 rounds yesterday with acceptable recoil.

I'm 64 years old and grew up hunting starting at 8 so I'm not new to long guns. Apparently you can teach an old dog new tricks! Lol BTW, I'm 6' 195lb and lift upper body weights 12 hours per week so don't call me a skinny weenie, just a plain old weenie! I don't enjoy painful hobbies though!

A gun range employee suggested a fore grip helps mitigate recoil with the Sub 2K. I just didn't want to junk the gun up with accessories but...
Glad it worked for you! Did you also pull it firmly into the shoulder pocket?
 

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Glad it worked for you! Did you also pull it firmly into the shoulder pocket?
Very firm.

Ultimately the Past shoulder pad gives total isolation but 100 rounds without it were no problem.
The Magpul angled foregrip looks promising without adding too much bulk. Claims to reduce recoil also. Anyone on here shot with one?

 
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I use the foregrip that came on my HP 995:

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And here's my "hickie" from the 1st time I fired the S2K:

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With a recoil pad, I don't have to worry much about placing the stock exactly in the "correct" position, just point and click.

My Mosin and Mauser don't do it.
 

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I guess Dubar and I are weenies because we get bruised!

Seriously, the placement of your bruise is proof the gun was not shouldered properly. I had a similar situation. My wife asked what happened? Mine looked more like Zebra stripes!

I've shot a Scorpion and would say it has about 40% less recoil than a Sub 2K. Maybe it's because I placed the butt stock correctly? Crazy because my tiny P365 is painless after shooting 300+ rounds.
 
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