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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a first time kel-tec owner. Just got my new Gen 2 sub 2000. While I do like the gun a lot, I found the sights are way too low for me, and am unable to obtain a proper sight picture, even when I force my cheek down real hard on the bolt tube. This takes the enjoyment out of shooting the gun. Do you have a similar experience? If so, is there a after market replacement that is taller?
 

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There's only so much can be done with a given design and everything with a firearm is a trade off. I find the sights to be usable, but not the best choice.

Is there an alternative? Yes. A side mount and a micro red dot sight. I'm using a Midwest industries mount and a Primary Arms red dot. It's a nice combo, but if you wait a bit there might be a better option soon for a mount. I would wait (that's a strong suggestion).

Before I got my MI mount and PA sight I used a Comp M3 mounted on top and used the small window left to me above the iron sights. The gun wouldn't fold. The side mount and red dot is just perfect for the s2k.

Eventually I'll get to actually looking at the design and maybe remove the front sight entirely and probably the rear sight as well.
 

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Initially I thought the same thing, sights are too low however I can get a decent sight picture with the stock sights. I just never have preferred a peep sight, I'm faster with a different type of sight but that's just me. I am right handed but left eye dominant and what works for me might not for the next person. I've been researching and reading available options and there's a few options to consider.

Tandemkross makes a replacement "eagle eye" peep sights. If that particular sight isn't any different than the stock rear sight then I don't see the point of changing it unless you want the flip down option. Tandemkross also offers a open style sight that would be more in line with something I would consider for my needs but I'm not in a hurry to decide.

Performance Services makes a rear replacement sight that is taller, why taller if the stock sights are the perfect right height? It appears someone else also thinks the stock height could be improved upon. However, it's still a peep sight which again I don't prefer but it does have a larger view port. Performance Services also makes a front sight pivot block.

Both sights border on the ridiculous side of pricing with excessive shipping cost considering how small the overall shipment weight would be but that's just my opinion. There are other companies that make Kel tec Sub-2000 products with many new products in the developmental stages.

I am still researching the best option for my particular need. I'll eventually have a red dot but I'd like to retain the open sight option as well but I'm also considering buying another Sub-2000 with the idea of setting each one up slightly different - just depends.

I'm not really interested in converting and modifying the Sub-2000 into a gear hanging AR type. I'd rather keep the gun streamlined, compact and in the ballpark of how it was originally designed regarding purpose, fit and function.

The Red Lion forend is surely nice but probably not best for my needs taking into consideration the cost versus function. The Midwest Industries sight mount looks okay but looks unstable and weak mounted in the M-lok, I think better options are coming soon.

Good luck, I'm sure you will figure things out, just don't rush into anything right away.
 

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I took the stock sights off and tossed them in the garbage. Installed a Redlion forend and a primary arms red dot. It's pretty obvious that KelTech engineers are visually impaired. Then there's that stupid collar that they glue in place that comes loose the first time you fire the gun.
I mean, really. How many years has it been since they first released the Sub 2000's? And they still can't get it right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the feedbacks. I do have a red dot on a QD mount on stand-by as a last resort, but I enjoy shooting iron more. Right now, my plan is to get a spare factory sight from Kel-tec, cut off the stem and epoxy it higher on the original sight. I'll see if that would work. One thing I am not sure is whether this set up would require a higher front sight.
 

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I don't get it. Maybe it's because I learned to shoot with an M-16. The sights on the Sub2K are the same height above the bore as those on the M-16/AR-15. I've never had a problem getting a good sight picture with the factory sights on a Sub2K. And I go 265 pounds with the attendant chubby cheeks. I get that some people have problems getting a proper sight picture, but I also see a lot of people who do not know how to use a proper cheek weld and refuse to try to learn. I won't belittle them for it, but it does make me shake my head when I try to help and they don't want it. I have rifles ranging from an 1873 Trapdoor up through WWI and II and up to my AR15. While some of them have given me hiccups I have never had a problem figuring out a proper cheek weld to use the sights on any of them.
 

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I took the stock sights off and tossed them in the garbage. . . . . . . . It's pretty obvious that KelTech engineers are visually impaired. Then there's that stupid collar that they glue in place that comes loose the first time you fire the gun.
I mean, really. How many years has it been since they first released the Sub 2000's? And they still can't get it right?
I wish I could invest in a company that can't make enough of their product to satisfy the market, that has dealers calling continually to check availability, that makes a product that trades above the MSRP. Yes, a marketing strategy such as this creates completion and lost opportunity, but somehow no one has tried to pick up the spare market demand. Yeah, everything has its flaws (including The Perfection Company, that has more aftermarket parts than Lego has pieces, to improve perfection), but every Kel-Tec owner I know are thrilled to own one, have fun on the range, and are always looking for the next Kel-Tec toy. They got something right . . .
 

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Thanks for the feedbacks. I do have a red dot on a QD mount on stand-by as a last resort, but I enjoy shooting iron more. Right now, my plan is to get a spare factory sight from Kel-tec, cut off the stem and epoxy it higher on the original sight. I'll see if that would work. One thing I am not sure is whether this set up would require a higher front sight.
If it's sighted in now, whatever you do to one sight you'll need to do to the other. If you raise the rear sight without raising the front sight the same amount you'll be firing high.

It would be far easier to learn to use it as designed, or ignore it and get the red dot, but it's your gun to do with as you wish. You could be opening up a huge can of worms.

I should have been more specific in my response regarding the sights in my post above. It's been awhile since I was able to effectively employ iron sights. The eyes just don't do them well anymore. I too learned to use the sights on a M16/AR15 so for me the sighting arrangement is no problem but all iron sights are the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
After reading the feedbacks here, I experimented with a new cheek weld for this gun this afternoon. If I really tuck my chin in until it can go no further, I can obtain a good sight picture. Although it feels unnatural at this point, I think this may work without messing with the sights. I will practise more with it.
 

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Try placing your cheekbone against the upper 1/3 of the stock and a few inches behind the front collar, then roll your head forward and in until your nose is JUST touching the back edge of the front collar of the stock tube. This should place your eye at the optimum distance behind (~5") and level with the rear peep sight. Your head should be well forward of your shoulder and the stock should be pulled fully into your shoulder. It helps if you hold it at about 45 degrees across your body with your legs spread about shoulder width apart. The rear peep should only be visible as a hazy circle with your focus on the front post. Your mind automatically wants to place the top of the post in the center of the peep circle. Rear peep sights are also sometimes known as ghost rings because of this affect.
 
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No, this pic isn't me...nor do I know the guy. But it shows almost exactly the "cheek weld" and butt stock position that I use. Works great for me. And I have a fat head, wide shoulders and a thick neck...along with long arms. Just tuck in and line everything up.
 

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I'm gonna come down on you folks like The Almighty Himself in Revelations!!!

Cause ya'll caused me to pull my S2K out to see what ya'll are talking about with these "Sights Are Too Low" claims and?...I'm still at a loss! LOL!

But I got a clue when I read someone here state...

"and when I put my chin..."

Folks?...if "Your Chin" is playing any role whatsoever in the operation and firing of your S2K?...I'd highly suggest ponying up for a lesson with a qualified tactical firearms instructor or?....read these following words of mine and pay close attention because?...

"When I slam that pipe stock up under the bottom side of my cheekbone?...it's like my S2K sights were laser aligned too my pupil!"

Folks?...if your chin is involved?...you're doing it wrong...this ain't no bench rifle...it's a badazz tactical carbine that feeds off glock mags and folded?...falls just long of fitting in a shoe box...



but locked open and well fed in the right hands?...if the gates of Hades opened up a whole bunch of demons would have a real bad day...



weld that pipe stock tight up under your cheekbone and rock it like a boss my brothers! ;)
 

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Yup, I hunch my shoulder up a bit then tuck in my elbow. Lay the bolt tube right across the bottom of my cheek bone. Kind of hunch over the rifle.

Another hint...the best thing about the new Gen2 sub? The ability to change the length of the butt stock readily.

SHORTEN the length of pull a notch or even 2...I have mine in the middle...then hunch over that rifle. It may surprise you. Shorter is better. :D
 

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I'm even going to critic this guy so listen closely folks...



while he is in fact demonstrating a very good cheek weld offering him the proper eye alignment?...IMNSHO?...his purchase of the fore-stock is wrong and here's the reasons why....

1. 50-100 fast fire rounds from now?...he'll burn his hand there.

2. They are barrel cooling vent holes his hands covering up.

3. It's a less stable way of firing the weapon.

Now the right way.....

Purchase the forestock where the forestock IS...(and it's not out on the Picatinny rails where the cooling vents are)...you want your purchase up close and tight too the front of the trigger guard...which should be centered in the palm of your forehand...which in turn?...

Will allow you to tuck your forehand elbow tight against your torso yielding a very stable shooting platform where you will find that....

Now?....instead of using your forehand to align and point your weapon at the intended target?...you no longer aim by moving your lead arm...

"YOU AIM BY MOVING YOUR ENTIRE UPPER TORSO LIKE A TURRET ON A TANK!"

where in doing so?...

"Your Front Sight Post Will Remain Stable & Centered In Your Rear Aperture"

far more so than by trying to maintain your sight alignment with an outstretched arm.

Don't believe me?...try it...with a safe and cleared weapon?...assume those two positions and start moving rapidly from target point to target point...where you'll easily witness the one that works far better...which is the one I speak of.

Have a Blessed Evening Folks. ;)
 

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Jinkster...I wholeheartedly agree...with basically everything you pointed out. Like a turret. I love it. I've been doing that and didn't even realize it till you mentioned it. And cupping the front of the trigger guard area.
 

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Jinkster...I wholeheartedly agree...with basically everything you pointed out. Like a turret. I love it. I've been doing that and didn't even realize it till you mentioned it. And cupping the front of the trigger guard area.
Then you Sir are doing it right! :Cooltu:

I see you're in Daytona...maybe one day we'll shoot some. :machinegunner:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Bingo! Problem solved!

Try placing your cheekbone against the upper 1/3 of the stock and a few inches behind the front collar, then roll your head forward and in until your nose is JUST touching the back edge of the front collar of the stock tube.

Worked like a charm. Now I love my Sub 2000 even more. I am actually going to put away my red dot that was on stand-by. Thank you to all.
 
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