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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just purchased a Sub-2000 Gen 2. Have a couple questions (sorry if this is covered in another thread). Why is the line-of-sight so low? Strains my neck - making it hard to achieve proper sight picture. Am I the only one or do the sights need to be 1/2" higher with a larger peep hole? Simple fix. So, why doesn't Kel-tec fix this or at least offer higher sights?
 

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I'll tell you what the engineers and techs at Kel Tec told me...hunch down into it. Forget trying to hold it like an AR, won't work with a Sub.

Literally, hunch your head, neck, shoulders up and over the "stock" part of the Sub. Try to keep your head as straight up and down as you can...don't tilt your head over if possible. Lean forward and into it.

This all requires a new set of habits...but it's really easier than you think. I'll try to take some pics of the stance later on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Just seems to me you shouldn't have to "hunch your head, neck, shoulders up and over the 'stock' part of the Sub" when simply raising the sight height makes for a far more ergonomic platform. The only other change needed would be to extend the cutout in the front hand guard to accept the longer rear sight.

I don't know of any other weapons system that require this type of user accommodation to get a good sight picture. I watched numerous Youtube videos and I believe it also contributes to felt recoil since you have to "paste your face to the stock tube."

I think KT blew a big opportunity with the Gen 2 redesign. Simple fix if they care - probably not.
 

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No other weapon folds in half like the sub. That makes all the difference. If Kel Tec bent the stock tube at just the right angle, you wouldn't need a taller sight, you wouldn't need to hunch into it....you also couldn't fold it.

Bend the Sub stock at this angle.






It's a strange duck because of this folding thing. YOU have to adapt to it...instead of adapting the rifle to you like most others. The only thing I can think of that may work is to extend the width or height of the butt plate. So it could be held with just the very bottom of the butt plate touching your shoulder....sorta like this one:

Gun Firearm Rifle Trigger Air gun


Then your actually raising the sights to your eye level without hunching over. True?
 

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Just seems to me you shouldn't have to "hunch your head, neck, shoulders up and over the 'stock' part of the Sub" when simply raising the sight height makes for a far more ergonomic platform. The only other change needed would be to extend the cutout in the front hand guard to accept the longer rear sight.

I don't know of any other weapons system that require this type of user accommodation to get a good sight picture. I watched numerous Youtube videos and I believe it also contributes to felt recoil since you have to "paste your face to the stock tube."
Soldiers have learned to shoot the M-16 for decades with the exact same sight height from the bore when using the irons. How's that for an "any another weapon system"? Maybe it was because I had ONLY shot an M-16 for 15 years before I bought my Gen 1 that I really didn't notice any difference in shouldering it? I'm 6', 265-280 pounds, and I don't have any problem rolling my fat face into the stock to get a sight picture.
 
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My best guess is Kel Tec sells a ton of these to people that don't seem to care about the sight height...enough complaints would make them change something.

I like mine just fine, with the irons sights or my red dot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Soldiers have learned to shoot the M-16 for decades with the exact same sight height from the bore when using the irons. How's that for an "any another weapon system"? Maybe it was because I had ONLY shot an M-16 for 15 years before I bought my Gen 1 that I really didn't notice any difference in shouldering it? I'm 6', 265-280 pounds, and I don't have any problem rolling my fat face into the stock to get a sight picture.
I never had an issue with the M16 because the top of the sight post is 5/8" HIGHER from center bore than the Sub 2000! They are definitey not the same.
 

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I never had an issue with the M16 because the top of the sight post is 5/8" HIGHER from center bore than the Sub 2000! They are definitey not the same.
Then I cannot explain why using the exact same cheek weld works for me. I wish I could be more helpful.
 

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Seems you answered your on question, just have some sights made that are 5/8 of inch taller and it will be perfect for you. If you don't know a gunsmith that can handle that small job I'll hook you up with the one I use.
 
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Seems you answered your on question, just have some sights made that are 5/8 of inch taller and it will be perfect for you. If you don't know a gunsmith that can handle that small job I'll hook you up with the one I use.
I agree with FTL on this. This is a VERY simple job and you could even get one 3D printed one to test at a local or online 3D printer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not so simple when you consider time and effort to design/fabricate a "one-off" project. Especially the factory front sight, which is a real "Rube Goldberg."

I have a mill and lathe; and will likely go the DIY route. Really surprised that the current after-market sight makers haven't done this.
 

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Let me get my gen 2 in on Monday and get a solid works made up and I will share a 3D file once I get it done in a few weeks.

Alternatively, a stamped version for the rear sight could also made but that would be a little more costly upfront and cheaper in manufacturing long term.
 
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