SU-22 or ATI GSG-5 .22?

Discussion in 'SU-22' started by jbar, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. jbar

    jbar New Member

    4
    Nov 21, 2008
    Hi,

    I own a KT S&W sub2000 and KT P-11. I love both...that being said, I'm struggling over buying a SU-22. It seems to be overly sensitive to .22 ammo. Therefore I'm seriously considering an ATI GSG-5 .22. The SGS-5 has great reviews, costs more but seems to be very reliable. I'm really disappointed in the SU-22 reviews... Why doesn't KT fix this ammo problem and unreliability of this gun? In my humble opinion it's a shame KT put this gun on the market with all the ammo it won't shoot. I use CCI in my 22 pistol and it works great, it would suck to have to buy another round when I'm all stocked up. Why am I wrong?

    Thanks Crew.
     
  2. ktwm

    ktwm Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2004
    The feeding issue is largelly fixed (Increased feedramp cut in barrel). but you can't fix bad ammo, and that is why ammo with very loose crimps (Rem Golden bullets) or ammo that is caked in wax (Some CCI ammo) is going to have problems feeding in the SU-22, and probably also the GSG's. Most CCI ammo is not a problem, and if it's caked in wax, you can just wipe it off.

    All the SU-22's that have been reviewed here are the early models that do not have the new feed-ramp cut (I have not seen any postings of newer ones). Unfortunately, there are not that many SU-22's out there yet, but there are more and more PLR-22's and many of them have the increaesed feedramp.

    If you have the money, get both...or get the one you see available first (even if it's the GSG) and then if you don't like it, sell it and by the other one.
     

  3. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    The only other .22 I shoot is a Beretta NEOS pistol and it does like the Remington Golden Bullet bulk pack ammo, but my early production SU-22 doesn't like it. I'm surprised any firearm reliably shoots that stuff. The bullet spins around in the case and wobbles. Not liking the cheap Remington craptastic ammo isn't a problem. The SU-22 feeds the cheap Federal and the cheaper Blazer (CCI) wax coated rounds just fine. I think the wax will eventually cause a buildup on the feed ramp but it wipes away easily with a little RemOil on a Q-Tip. I expect wax buildup in the magazine too, so I'll probably need to use some polymer safe degreaser if I keep shooting the Blazer ammo. Frankly, saving $3 per 525 round box hardly seems worth it if the maintenance increases even a little. I'd buy the copper plated Federal Value Pack ammo and be done with it, but they don't put any primer in about 2% of them, and that aggravates me. I'm still searching for a good cheap ammo for the SU-22, and when I find it, I'll buy 10,000 of them.

    As for the GSG-5... I've heard good things. I saw RJ's at the KTOG National and the build quality looks very good. for the price, it should be very well built. I think RJ likes his GSG a lot, and his son Bob pretty nearly loved it to death! I know this is a weird complaint, but I didn't like the fake suppressor to hide the 16" barrel. I know I'm way in the minority on that, and most people like the MP5 styling. I always liked the MP5 design, but not the looks.

    Now that I opened up the SU-22 ejection port and eliminated the jamming, it's a joy to shoot. If the GSG-5 and the SU-22 were the same price, I'd still get the SU-22, but I'm cuckoo for Kel-Tecs.

    Off Topic: Speaking of weird individual preferences... the .223 sized magazine that holds fewer rounds of .22 LR ammo bugs me too. It's cool to have a .22 LR version of the SU-16, but I'd rather have a purpose built survival .22. I don't need to keep mags loaded for that type of .22 rifle, so there's no advantage to the removable magazine and there are some disadvantages (more parts, therefore greater expense and lower reliability). I'd love to have a rugged but light weight Kel-Tec bull pup .22 with an internal magazine, perhaps a good old tubular magazine. Or maybe a lighter version of the SUB-2000 in .22 LR. I doubt there's enough demand to make either of those a profitable product, but there might be. The world STILL needs a good survival .22, but for now, the SU-22 is the closest I've seen to meeting my requirements.
     
  4. jbar

    jbar New Member

    4
    Nov 21, 2008
    OK, how do I know if I'm getting an old model or new? I'm looking to buy off gunbroker...

    As far as survival guns go, what do you mean? I have a bad a$$ shotgun for home defense and the sub 2000 to back it up. The SU-22 would be for fun shooting...
     
  5. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    Hopefully, ktwm will confirm, but I'd guess that any SU-22 beyond the first batch of 100 will have the upgrades? Or maybe there was a second batch that also didn't get the upgrades? The serial number will be the clue. My SU-22 serial number places it in the first hundred. It's probably not a decimal numbering system, but rather a higher base that also includes most letters as well as numbers to make the serial numbers shorter. There's a thread somewhere on KTOG that explains how to convert to the base 10 numbers that we commonly use.

    Probably a better way to ensure you're getting an upgraded SU-22 is to look at the picture on GunBroker. You should see a larger machined lower edge of the ejection port. Here's the Before & After picture that ktwm posted.

    [​IMG]

    I have a couple of SUB-2000 carbines and they'd be great little survival guns, but I was specifically thinking of something chambered in .22 LR. The ammo is inexpensive and very light weight and easy to carry. A .22 rifle isn't very noisy, either, and that can have some major advantages in some situations.

    For fun shooting, the SU-22 is a great pick. The only part that isn't fun is loading the magazine, and I'm even getting to where I don't mind that so much. There is an expensive mag loader available from Black Dog, and hopefully a less expensive injection molded version coming soon.
     
  6. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    i love the gsg, even more so once I got rid of the faux supressor and modified it by gemtech (THANK GUYS!!!)

    but they are 2 different types of weapons, and that being said, go with whatever you like. feel them both and try it.

    and ALL GUNS CAN BE AMMO SENSITIVE.

    Things like this are my pet peeve. I spend 500.00 on a .22 rifle made by GSG. I spend 250.00 to get it modified by gemtech. I spend 200.00 on he stamp to do so.

    Then you are going to put 12.00 ammo in it.

    Quality ammo tends to cause less problems. 99% of all gun problems are really ammo related.
     
  7. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    make sure to get the one with the riveted ejector.
     
  8. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    99% of all online statistics are made up on the spot.

    PS - 99% of all semi-auto problems are caused by magazines.


    :D
     
  9. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    did you know that 99% of 36% of 20% of the worlds global warming is caused by 10% of the 25% of the corn crop being processed by 1% of...
     
  10. ktwm

    ktwm Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2004
    One other thing I forgot to mention.

    The SU-22 has a Bentz style chamber. This is a semi-match grade chamber which is tighter than the normal .22LR sporting chamber. We went this route for increased accuracy, but it may contribute to some ammo sensitivity.

    I'm not sure what type of chamber the GSG has.
     
  11. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    same. make no mistake about it.
     
  12. ktwm

    ktwm Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2004
    VRJ (Or anyone else), any idea what the trigger on the GSG is like, compared to the SU-22 (Or SU-16...it's the same trigger group).

    I know the SU is not knows for a great trigger, but how is the GSG's
     
  13. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    the trigger on my gsg is phenomenal. no grit, no creep, clean break point.

    however, if you are in the area, I will let you come compare them...

    but they are 2 different rifles. I would and do expect no less from a $500.00 .22 cal rifle. that i now have over $1000.00 in.
     
  14. cmreds

    cmreds New Member

    68
    Aug 10, 2006
    I couldn't decide so I bought the SU, PLR and now I am saving up (selling a couple of guns I have never fired and probably never will) to buy the GSG. 223, 308 and 30.06 ammo is getting to expensive not that 22 is not, but I can do alot more shooting for the money.
     
  15. jbar

    jbar New Member

    4
    Nov 21, 2008
    OK, I bought a PLR-22...shoots like a dream!  ;D

    Is there a folding stock that will fit this pistol...not that I'd do that.  ::)
     
  16. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    dude, that needs to go, and I would say that is a banning offense.
     
  17. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Yes, there is, and there is a legal way to do it. Please do not make insinuations or otherwise advocate illegal activity here. The BATF takes that sort of thing very seriously and we don't really want that kind of attention. You want an SBR? Do the paperwork, pay the $200 and get the stamp. If you think the law is senseless (and many agree), work to change it. We kid around sometimes but here at ktog, we believe that it is in our best interest to portray the general gun owning public as the law-abiding citizens that we are.
     
  18. c0wboi38

    c0wboi38 New Member

    Sep 19, 2006
    What HE said!

    :)

    Even I don't joke about violating the NFA. I may hate it with a passion, but that doesn't mean I mess around with it!
     
  19. jbar

    jbar New Member

    4
    Nov 21, 2008
    Yes, there is, and there is a legal way to do it.  Please do not make insinuations or otherwise advocate illegal activity here.  The BATF takes that sort of thing very seriously and we don't really want that kind of attention.  You want an SBR?  Do the paperwork, pay the $200 and get the stamp.  If you think the law is senseless (and many agree), work to change it.  We kid around sometimes but here at ktog, we believe that it is in our best interest to portray the general gun owning public as the law-abiding citizens that we are.
    [/quote]

    and how and where does one apply for this?