Stupid Question Maybe

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by phoenixtexoma, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. phoenixtexoma

    phoenixtexoma Banned

    31
    Sep 12, 2008
    I'm a new Kel Tec owner from the world of 1911s, and have a (possibly) stupid question/observation. You're not supposed to dry fire the Kel Tec, which I haven't. So after shooting, the hammer remains cocked. And since there's no slide lock-back and exposed hammer, you have a taut trigger on an empty chamber. No problem for the moment, but several weeks down the road, you might not remember if there's a round chambered or not. A slack trigger tells you for sure that a round isn't chambered. I prefer the slack trigger route, so for the time being, I'm using a snap cap. Any comments or tips welcome.
     
  2. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    FIRST, TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS LOADED!!!! COMPLACENCY CAUSES NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES.

    SECOND, if it is not on me or in my vicinity, then it has no round in it. Then i do not have to remember.

    THIRD, and I can prove this, feel free to come over for a demonstration, a slack trigger tells you NOTHING about whether a round is chambered or not.

    YMMV.
     

  3. jpaul

    jpaul Member

    233
    Apr 23, 2008
    The hammer is not cocked after firing a round, I guess it could be called half cocked.  It requires pulling the trigger to fully pull the hammer to the rear so the hammer can drop and fire the round.
    I can not see how a slack/taut trigger on a KT is gonna tell you anything.
     
  4. vwspdshp

    vwspdshp New Member

    78
    Jul 19, 2008
    I'm new to this slack trigger talk. When I check a chamber, touching the trigger is not involved. I just always keep certain guns at the ready, and all others are empty until they're put into use. Other than emergencies, I always check the chamber visually for a round. I don't really think the slack trigger thing works on DAO guns.
     
  5. haugrdr

    haugrdr Super Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Jan 4, 2008
    Daytona Beach
    I'm completely lost here. The hammer isn't cocked, for one. The tension on the trigger will be the same whether a round is loaded or not...I mean the tension will be there even if you take the slide right off the gun.
    And pulling the trigger on a snap cap does nothing to release anything...this is a DOUBLE ACTION ONLY..the act of pulling the triger, wheather on a live round or a snap cap...just resets the hammer back to it's normal "resting" position...there is no (or little) tension on the hammer when in this position...it can't "fall" from this position and dischage a round.

    Not sure if I'm stating this correctly, but I tried.

    I'm confused at what point your trying to make.


    Rick
     
  6. JRadice45

    JRadice45 New Member

    123
    Aug 22, 2008
    When it comes to checking the condition of pistols and rifles, shotguns etc, I have found the trigger is a NEGLIGENT indicator, for a host of reasons lol.
    I proceed to check by opening the action a but, see if there is brass, or at night if I can feel the case.
    Most all firearms are loaded, exception for a few, but no matter, even if I think its loaded, I have to prove to myself visually and tactically (feel) first.
     
  7. doubloon

    doubloon New Member

    Jan 5, 2008
    Houston-ish, TX
    +1 +2 +3
     
  8. Rubb

    Rubb Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    NO, a visual inspection followed by a visual Inspection would be the way to know for sure.

    http://www.thegunzone.com/therules.html

    I'm going to assume you know how to safely handle a gun and this made
    complete sence in your head but, reads very bad.

    I'm also going to assume that you're talking about after a few weeks,
    forgetting to count the rounds at the range.

    I'm assuming you want to load a snap cap in the mag first to make it the last
    round fired to avoid the dry fire damage.
    ( Not a bad idea, a dry fire here and there won't hurt IMO though)

    You've inspired a new sig phoenix, Welcome and be safe
     
  9. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    I kinda think the O.P. means that any time you encounter a slack trigger on a P3-AT it means that pistol has been dry-fired and the slide has not been manually cycled so as to possibly load a fresh round from the magazine if a loaded mag was in the weapon. So presumably you have either an empty chamber, a snap cap or a spent case in the chamber.

    Of course you could also have a dud primer in a live round that is chambered or you could have short-stroked the trigger on a gun without the latest hammer block mod and the round did not fire with the reduced hammer stroke.

    You could also have a live round chambered if the pistol malfunctioned in such a way that the hammer did not reset properly.

    While there is a certain logic to the above, I suppose, I feel it could lead to a negligent discharge if someone were to rely on it as a safety procedure.

    Visually check the chamber and then check again!

    That's the only way I know of to be safe.

    I know there are some blaze orange safety thingies out there with tabs that stick out that you can put in the chamber to show that it is empty. I think some new guns come shipped from the manufacturer with them and I also believe Kel-Tec uses them in their repair shop. Seems I got a pistol back from them when I took it in personally for repair that had one of those.
     
  10. Rubb

    Rubb Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    That's it :eek:


    pheonix wants to dry fire on a snap cap before storing.

    Go for it(safely) and check check the chamber chamber too ;)
     
  11. phoenixtexoma

    phoenixtexoma Banned

    31
    Sep 12, 2008
    To PooBah: Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to get across. Sorry about my confusing phrasing.
     
  12. RAT76

    RAT76 Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Oklahoma
    First, as has been said here before, the trigger on a P3 is not slack at any time except just after it's been pulled & before it is allowed to return to the rest position where it resets.

    Second, to determine wif a P3 is loaded or not all you have to do is look at the little gap between the barrel & the breech face on the right side of the gun in the ejection port.  If loaded you will see the case rim.  If not you will just see a gap. Don't remember for sure but I don't think this works with the P11.

    Kinda neat the way KT built in a visual loaded chamber indicator WITHOUT adding any parts ain't it?

    :D

    As a backup you can point the gun at a light & look at the rear of the slide. If you can see light beside the hammer the barrel is clear. THIS method also works with the P11.
     
  13. phoenixtexoma

    phoenixtexoma Banned

    31
    Sep 12, 2008
    Poobah: Just finished 300 miles today around Lake Texoma on my Softtail Custom with my Kel Tec on a clip in the back of my jeans. I meant to add that I've put about 150 rounds through it, and my son at least 200 rounds, with no problems or jams. It's a great little gun. Am very glad I bought it. Your informed observations are appreciated.
     
  14. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    Actually, we have a lot of "Poobahs" here. Anyone with 500+ posts is a "Grand Poobah" by default. The user's screen name is in a different color, depending on his/her status (post count) above the title line (Grand Poobah, Full Member, etc.). I'm not taking you to fault over this, it's just that it makes it hard to know who you really mean when you use the poster's title as if it were his/her individual identity.
    And BTW, "Welcome to our little corner of the 'Net"
     
  15. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    All weapons always loaded and always treated that way unless I personally JUST unloaded them AND checked them TWICE. What's the question?

    -Scott
     
  16. phoenixtexoma

    phoenixtexoma Banned

    31
    Sep 12, 2008
    To keep tension off the hammer spring. I spent 23 years in the army as an 11-Bravo, two years as a combat rifle instructor, am well aware of firearms safety.
     
  17. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    In the normal, half-cocked position there is reduced tension on the hammer spring. It's not like you kept a 1911 cocked & locked.
     
  18. Old_Bill

    Old_Bill New Member

    193
    Jun 15, 2008
    Well now! I've found the easiest and fastest way to tell if there a round chambered in my P-3AT is to .....just look down the barrel...while checking the slack on the trigger! :eek: :cool: ;D ;)

    OK, you don't really have to mess with the trigger...I was just checking to see if you were paying attention! :cool: :cool:

    Actually, there is ALWAYS a round in my P-3AT's chamber...when I'm caring it...when I'm sleeping...and so on! So I never have to think whether or not it's ready to fire. Should the need arrive it's ready to do it's job. ;D

    However, I do not have small children living in, nor visiting, our home.  
     
  19. druid

    druid New Member

    32
    Jul 26, 2008
    The P-3AT is a DAO pistol.  DAO pistols are neither cocked nor half-cocked after firing.  The action of pulling the trigger cycles the action from the hammer-down position back to the hammer-down position.
     
  20. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    We do, and every weapon we own (wifey's P3AT) and every weapon we might have previously owned was always loaded. But either on us or in the safe.

    -Scott