[Walsh2]

I picked up my 3AT last month and put 20 rounds through it and had the spring pop out past the guide rod. I have a chromed slide as well as a streel rod.

I saw this mentioned by someone two years ago. Is this a somewhat frequent occurrence?

Stripping it down, I decided to just open the end of the spring a little. I've put 80 more rounds through it without a problem.

Should I be sending this back to Kel-Tek, and if so, what should be done to it? Does someone else sell a better spring?

This is a backup gun in my back pocket in the event I cannot get to my carry gun under my jaqcket or shirt [depending upon weather]. But even as a backup, it needs to work flawlessly.

Thanks in advance
Walsh2

 

[JFB]

There is a nylon washer to fit in the slide to hold the springs.


Source of the nylon washer

Discussion and details

 

[TxCajun]

Sounds like your guiderod hole has opened up, most likely beause the slide was too thin there.  Many have put a nylon insert there:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2503;action=display;num=1175020076

Otherwise, send the slide in to KT for replacement.

 

[Wilson]

Should I be sending this back to Kel-Tek, and if so, what should be done to it?

Let’s help Kel-Tec get all of theses too thin slides replaced. Call Kel-Tec 1-800-515-9983 Service Dept. Monday to see if they have any hard chrome slides in inventory for a quick swap and what arrangements need to be made for it’s return.

Wilson – who’s hoping to buy more used pre-owned HC P-3ATs in the future ;D

 

[Walsh2]

Let’s help Kel-Tec get all of theses too thin slides replaced. Call Kel-Tec 1-800-515-9983 Service Dept. Monday to see if they have any hard chrome slides in inventory for a quick swap and what arrangements need to be made for it’s return.

Wilson – who’s hoping to buy more used pre-owned HC P-3ATs in the future  ;D

Thanks...I'll do just that. Like I said, this happened with 20 rounds only through the gun. I even took a photo of it. I opened the spring end a bit and it shoots fine...for now.

If I have to use this gun it's only because one is pointed at me and I've managed to take this like a wallet from my back pocket and I have decided not to give someone my money AND risk them shooting me. Anything under 100% isn't good enough because if the spring comes out after the first shot I might have just really pissed someone off and they'll have a gun!

Thanks,
Walsh

 

[TxCajun]

Call Kel-Tec 1-800-515-9983 Service Dept. Monday to see if they have any hard chrome slides in inventory for a quick swap...

Good advice. Since the HC plating is outsourced, you don't want to catch them between batches and have your pistol languish for longer than necessary. Ask the SERVICE dept if they have HC replacement slides in stock before sending your slide back. Probably they do.

 

[Packer]

  Hi! Welcome to KTOG! Can you tell us what your Serial Number is please? (Leave out the last digit.) This problem merits a free trip to Cocoa. Ask kT to provide you with a UPS Call Tag.

Packer.

 

[ColeSpeed]

Need guidance on similiar issue. There is a slight amount of flaring 3/4 the way around the rod hole. I have now put 250 rounds through; the first 50 I had 12 FTF and a stove pipe. the next 100 a couple of FTF's. Today I put another 100 through of 3 different type ammo and there was 0 issues! I did notice a flat edge on the dispensed shell casings?
So my question is a) call kel-tec and see about having it replaced b) obtain the nylon washers and see what the future holds? My intention is to have it HC but at this point I am unsure of making that investment.
Model JAMxx
Thanks,
Cole

 

[TxCajun]

A close up pic of the guide rod hole would be helpful in deciding. Since it is working well now, and the "peening" is not yet pronounced, I would probably put a washer in it and see what happens. :-/

 

[rjhauser]

yep. washer-ize it.

 

[ColeSpeed]

I took a couple of photo's but they were too out of focus to see well. Is there a known block of series numbers that have the thinner hole?
I will go with the washers; put a few hundred more rounds through it and then decide on the HC.
Thanks,
Cole

 

[Walsh2]

  Hi! Welcome to KTOG! Can you tell us what your Serial Number is please? (Leave out the last digit.) This problem merits a free trip to Cocoa. Ask kT to provide you with a UPS Call Tag.

Packer.

J955x

Thanks,
Walsh

 

[TxCajun]

I took a couple of photo's but they were too out of focus to see well. Is there a known block of series numbers that have the thinner hole?
I will go with the washers; put a few hundred more rounds through it and then decide on the HC.
Thanks,
Cole

We were tracking serial # at one point. IIRC, most of the peened slides were in the J series and were made last Fall/Winter. Remember, however, it was a relatively small percentage of the 1000 P3ATs produced each week. What REALLY matters is the slide thickness at the guide rod hole on YOUR gun. Some of those that went bad were described as "paper thin". :-/

 

[Walsh2]

 What REALLY matters is the slide thickness at the guide rod hole on YOUR gun.  Some of those that went bad were described as "paper thin".   :-/

Using an Franklin electronic caliper from MidwayUSA, the thickness at the recoild spring on the slide is an astonishing .0022". A piece of paper of a relatively light weight is .003, My end is less than "thin paper" think. I don;t know the trade of tooling, but didn't trhey route it "down" to that thickness?

Looking from the front, there is a very small ridge that appears to be a place where repeated firing will cause a failure.

I got home too late to call today. I should be able to speak to them tomorrow.

It would be interesting to hear what those with and without HC slides measure as the thickness at the hole for the recoil spring.

This is NOT a safe primary gun, that's for sure.

Thanks,
Walsh

 

[JFB]

...the thickness at the recoild spring on the slide is an astonishing .0022".

they route it "down" to that thickness?

This representive drawing is to scale.  This shows the 1/4" diameter hole was made with a 120d  tappered tipped (drill bit).  If the tip of the bit, throught the 0.135 diameter hole for the rod goes 0.025 past the plane of the face of the slide, the thichness around the hole will be about 0.025".  

If you look closely, there is a line at 0.050" thick.  for example, my slide was milled (a flat tipped drill) and they stopped with 0.050 thick.

There have been photos where the tappered drill went deeper and there was 0.000 thick at the ID of the 0.135 hole.

With our calipers, you might want to keep up with the ID of the 0.135 hole.  Measure the rod OD (0.133) and the spring wire OD (0.022 ?).  If the spring is popping out, the 0.135" hole must be (or have an arc) where the diameter is 0.155 (rod plus wire)

 

[Walsh2]

This representive drawing is to scale.  This shows the 1/4" diameter hole was made with a 120d  tappered tipped (drill bit).  If the tip of the bit, throught the 0.135 diameter hole for the rod goes 0.025 past the plane of the face of the slide, the thichness around the hole will be about 0.025".  

Perhaps this is a naive question, but why isn't a drill used to leave plenty of thickness, and then a 2nd drilling made for the recoil rod that would make a stronger slide?

Is it that expensive to do it that way? It seems to me that if someone fired one shot, the spring extended out, and the guy got beaten to death afterwards, Kel-Tek is out of business with the lawsuit for a defective design. I really can't believe that what I'm reporting is the norm and not an abberation.

Thanks,
Walsh

 

[JFB]

Perhaps this is a naive question, but why isn't a drill used to leave plenty of thickness, and then a 2nd drilling made for the recoil rod

The drawing does show that two "drill bits" were used. One for the 0.25"ID hole where the springs fit and one for the 0.14"ID hole where the rod passes through.

the 0.14" hole is drill all the way through the slide.

IF the 0.25" hole is drilled to deep, it makes the thickness of the metal around the guide rod thin.

IF the 0.25" hole is not drilled deep enought, the outer diameter where the spring seats will not provide enough room for the spring and it will go solid during recoil.

the angle of the drill bit tip will also play a big part. a normal tapered tip will remove metal faster with less drift, but be a compromise in the thickness left around the rod guide and the space for the spring.

If the tip of the drill is made flat, it is then callled an end mill bit and callled milling. this would allow the most space for the spring and allow the most metal around the recoil guide hole. However this metal removing operation requires a more rigid machine and takes more time than drilling

How the CNC machine performes the operation has not been stated here (nor known). I would doubt if two tools were used, more than likely a step drilled is used. and the depth the drill is part of the machine operators job in setting it up since it will change as the tool wears and is refaced.

 

[Walsh2]

Kelt-Tek decided that mailing me a slide now was "old policy" and that they have the HC in stock, they had a few bad batches, and that I should drop the slide in the mail. I asked about a UPS tag and they said to just drop it in the mail as "it"s just a few bucks".

Now yes, I can spring for the Priority Mail with insurance for about $6. But obviously, that's not the point.

If they themselves sell anything on the site I'm going to ask that something be tossed in the return package for my inconvenience. When all is said and done I'll report on what happened.

Walsh

 

[TxCajun]

Now yes, I can spring for the Priority Mail with insurance for about $6. But obviously, that's not the point.

If you read the life time warranty it does state that YOU are responsible for shipping TO Kel-ec while they provide return shipping. Fortunately, you do not have to send the whole gun in as that gets expensive. Fed Ex & UPS want about $50 because they require over night shipping on guns. In cases like that, it's nice if KT will issue a "call tag", and occassionally under some circumstances they will, but they are under no obligation to do so.

 

[Ziggy]

How long does the return process tend to take? My spring popped out at the range today (after 400+ rounds), and it's my only carry weapon. Not happy about having to go without because of a known faulty product. Mine is also a J9 series.