smiley trouble

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by eric, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. eric

    eric New Member

    Jan 12, 2008
    I shot my p3at today and had a misfire. So i took the round out to look at it and there was a smiley. Do i really need to do the smiley mod and if so. I was wondering how to do the smiley mod I looked at the website that said how to do it but i was wondering how much to cut off.

    Thanks in advance for your help
  2. evi1joe

    evi1joe Active Member

    Sep 22, 2007
    No suggestions/replies?  
    It doesn't look like you should take much off to me--however, I don't think you (we) should have to do this.

    I've got the same troubles.  My new P3AT gave me a ton of Fail-to-Feed issues at the range yesterday.  The bullets were all smiles (see pic below).  Oddly, the rounds weren't hanging up low on the feedramp; the barrel was low, and the bullets were hanging up kinda high...jammed into the upper-barrel-area as the barrel was jammed downwards.  Good news is this happened with none of the 18 DPX, bad news is that this happened with at least 10 of the 50 AE FMJ.  

    THREE Questions (since I'm not doing the mod):
    1) Is there any chance that break-in and fluff-n-buff will smooth out the smiley-issue completely (note: I didn't do much other than clean the gunk out, CLP, rem-dry, blow-out the gun when I got it)??
    2)  What will Kel-Tec fix or replace if I send my gun to them (from anyone who's had their smiles fixed)?
    3)  Since there isn't a "new-improved, non-smiley barrel" available, does that imply this is a random quirk which occasionally occurs due to a lottery of bad fitting parts--a barrel that's slightly off gets mated with a frame that's slightly off, etc.?  Are there ANY known occurences of a normal P3AT waking up oner morning to find that it's now a smiley-maker?

    Also, no I won't sell you my gun for $100.  However, for $210 I will actually think about it...even though I just paid $279.

    I just noticed that below this reply-text box, there's an option labeled "Disable Smilies--check this don't like smileys)."  WOW!  I knew KTOG was great, but this is amazing...

    Thanks, jOE

  3. riverkeeper

    riverkeeper New Member

    Aug 30, 2006
    Here's your answers.

    Had smilies with my HEZ=== .

    Dremeled by hand and eye without the OC stuff and it's been working perfect for about 800 more rounds.
  4. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Smilies were more of an issue with the 1st gen guns that were worse than what you are seeing.  The 2nd gen guns have a different cut on the feedramp.  You can obviously still get them in some guns with certain ammo that has a longer OAL (FMJ).  However, smilies are not related to any other FTF issues you may be having.  They are pretty much a non-issue and most folks tend to ignore them.

    I guess you could say this is partly true as not all guns make them.  In such a small gun, there is not a lot of clearance.  You could send it back and they might adjust (trim) the feed ramp, or you could do it yourself, but I probably wouldn't bother.  :-/
  5. evi1joe

    evi1joe Active Member

    Sep 22, 2007
    Thanks! I thought the smileys were CAUSING my rounds to hang-up and jam the barrel downwards, making it get stuck open. Hrmmm. I'll give it a major fluff-n-buff and another 150 rounds (it's had 120 or so)...then if it still needs to go back, so be it.
  6. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    When the gun is fired, the round that is on top of the mag gets banged on the feed ramp when smilies occurr, not the round that is firing.  They generally don't affect function although in some guns, the mag followers may get beaten up after enough rounds as sometimes they get smacked too.  A phone call to KT will put new followers in your mailbox.  But, generally speaking, smilies do not affect the function of the gun.  Clean, lube and shoot another 100 rounds to finish breaking it in.  You might consider polishing the feed ramp if you haven't.

    P.S.  Make sure you are keeping your wrist locked, maintain a firm grip and pivot at the elbow.  This gun is easily limpwristed which will cause all sorts of FTFs.
  7. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member Supporter

    Jun 13, 2005
    Smileys were more prevalent and more drastic in FG P3-ATs that had a straight cut to the bottom of the feed ramp. What was formerly called a “rampectomy” was P3-AT owners filing the ramp into a curved shape to help reduce or eliminate the smilies.

    From the factory the SG barrels have a curved bottom on the feed ramp. This reduces or eliminates smilies on most SG P3-ATs. Even so, my SG gun produced fairly deep smilies. I filed a slightly deeper curve in the ramp, a bit at a time until the smilies were eliminated most of the time. I still get very slight ones occasionally.

    One other thing that may help is tilting the magazine back a bit away from the feed ramp. This has been done successfully by a forum member (sorry can’t remember who) by adding a thin, self-adhesive neoprene spacer to the frame just under the feed ramp and also to the bottom, rear of the mag well. I intend to try this next.

    Smilies won’t affect the function of the gun, but can cause bullet set-back (the bullet gets pushed back, deeper into the casing, possibly causing higher pressure when fired) and some smiley tests have shown that hollow point bullet expansion can be adversely affected.

  8. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005

    Bobo, check PMs