Smiley faces

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by garyd1961, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. garyd1961

    garyd1961 Banned

    247
    Jan 3, 2011
    NC
    I thought KT had solved this problem but I was wrong. My new P3AT KSXXX has smiley faces on each round I checked. I did a feed ramp mod on my P40 and it no longer has this problem. But the P3AT came from the factory with a "rampetomy" or whatever it's called. I don't think there's enough ramp left to modify. Has anyone else had this problem if so what did KT say about it?
     
  2. oldgranpa

    oldgranpa New Member

    628
    Sep 23, 2004
    What ammo were you using? FMJ or JHP?
     

  3. garyd1961

    garyd1961 Banned

    247
    Jan 3, 2011
    NC
    Round nose 95 gr FMJ. This is for break in. Would flat nose work better? I can see the feed ramp is too long. It extends into the mag/magwell. Why are they still making guns with this problem?
    edit-I would just like to say I do like this little gun but would like it more without the smiley faces.
     
  4. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    This has not been a common problem on the 2nd gen guns. Could be that particular round had an unusually long OAL, I don't know. Try something shorter.
     
  5. oldgranpa

    oldgranpa New Member

    628
    Sep 23, 2004
    what Tx says is probably right. In general FMJ ammo has a longer OAL and some brands still get hit with the smiley face. Just some OAL comparisons....

    UMC  .962"
    Amer Eagle  .966"
    Mag Tek  .973"
    Win ValPak flat nose  .950"

    And typical JHP, Speer GoldDot  .945"

    Don't know what brand FMJ you used, but foreign stuff is usually longer OAL.

    Get a good caliper and check the OAL yourself and that may tell something. A before and after reading will tell you the setback. About .003" setback is all I've seen with newer P3AT's. (The original 1stgen P3AT without the ramp mode got up to .025"setback with some ammo.)

    Basically, in today's world the smiley face you get with a KelTek 2dgeneration P3AT is mostly just an annoyance. No confirmed report of a kaboomb with one. GoldenLoki got some funny results with some on GoldenSaber ammo.
    And in my tests, the Ruger LCP was one of the worst for smileys on all kinds of ammo, and probably still is (ignorance is bliss!!).

    Search my ballistics section at USR for my smiley threads, use the WWW link thingy at the bottom sig line.

    Cheers,
    og
     
  6. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    My 2G P3at caused a pretty good smiley, I tried to file the ramp down but it didn't help. I added the upper shim JFB described in the below quote because I remember he advised that it helped with smileys. Last time I checked it helped.

     
  7. oldgranpa

    oldgranpa New Member

    628
    Sep 23, 2004
    Most interesting post about the neoprene shim on the magazine. I had not thought of that during my early smiley tests years ago. And yes, after many tests, I concluded that one of the basic causes of smileys with the P3AT was the cheap MecGar magazine. It's made with a slippery, black, epoxy coating and the ears at the top can't prevent the round from slipping forward during recoil of the first shot. It then gets hit just before chambering. (You can confirm this by extracting the mag after firing a shot and look where the top round is in the mag.)
    I tried a bunch of stuff, grinding off the coating with my dremel, tightening the ears in a vise, putting a punch mark at the back of the ears, etc. And about all I did was ruin the magazine. Also, bought several replacement magazines and was surprised that some came with very tight ears and no smileys occured with those.
    In fact the P3AT I have now, bought last year, doesn't do smileys. The magazine appears to be one on the low end of whatever tolerances Mecgar uses.
    All this bull is listed on my smiley threads at USR, the WWW link at bottom sig line.

    So if you still have some smileys, maybe try getting another magazine and see it it's better. I wish KelTec would just use a bare steel magazine without that slippery coating.

    Mostly my opinion. But based on experience I hope.

    Oh, note, Ruger's LCP uses the same Mecgar mag and the smileys I got from one I tried were much worse than any P3AT I've had. And I've had 5 P3AT's.

    So, don't sweat the smiley problem. As long as your P3AT shoots good, no worry, (unless it's an unmodified 1st gen).

    og.....'what? me worry!!
     
  8. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    OG, the shim goes on the frame of the P3 not the mag itself. I think it slows or stops the feed ramp from hitting the bullet. Or maybe it's just padding the area that the bullet is moving forward and striking. I could be wrong as I am far from an expert.

    CJ
     
  9. burley

    burley Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Kansas
    :-? color me confused but those seem to be a contradiction. Could you post pics please.
     
  10. garyd1961

    garyd1961 Banned

    247
    Jan 3, 2011
    NC
    It appears I chose the worse possible ammo for smileys, American Eagle FMJ. I will try another brand next time. I don't mind the smileys on FMJ but I don't want it when I switch to JHPs.
    Burley, the feed ramp has the anti-smiley modification but it still extends into the mag when the barrel is in the rear most position. If the ramp was shortened so it didn't extend into the mag the bullet couldn't come in contact with it. I modified (shortened)my P40 feed ramp and it no longer has this problem. I don't think there is enough material left on the P3AT ramp to modify. I could try but it may weaken the area too much and cause something to break.
    I found the bullet test in the sticky and I'm going to try another brand of ammo and hope this fixes the problem.