Slide Binding During Firing

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by KuduKing, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. KuduKing

    KuduKing New Member

    60
    Aug 27, 2005
    My first 2nd Gen P3AT has been great.  I purchased a second as a backup, and because I liked the grey grip.

    The second one was pre-owned, unknown number of rounds fired, but appearance looked ANIB. Worked great for the first 200 rounds.  Then started to have fail-to-feed, fail to eject issues.  Increasing frequency until the other day I had 9 malfunctions in 30 rounds fired.  In each malfunction, the slide had binded up in the 2/3-open position, and either the fired case was not ejected, or the live round was not fed/chambered.

    I could hand cycle the slide, but it was obvious that the slide was stuck with some friction against the frame.  I changed the recoil springs to a new set with no change in the results.  The malfunctions occurred with all four magazines I have.  Ammo was factory Speer 90 GDHP, Federal 95 FMJ and Federal 90 JHP.

    During hand cycling the slide, I could not reproduce the problem.  Field-stripped, I could not see any damage.

    My original P3AT works perfectly.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. Moon

    Moon New Member

    26
    Aug 16, 2008
    No ideas - Recommend you send to Kel-tec. They'll make it well.
     

  3. DaveNC

    DaveNC Member

    210
    Mar 7, 2008
    If you removed the mag was the slide still stuck? I'm guessing after you drop the mag things free up?

    If your getting a LOT of failure to extract then you should get Keltec to send you a new extractor, spring and machine screw. If you put rounds manually in the chamber without using the magazine it will fatigue your extractor spring.
     
  4. Possumgravy

    Possumgravy Guest

    Assuming you cleaned it and use grease on the rails, disassemble it and see if the slide works freely with the spring removed.
     
  5. vn6869

    vn6869 New Member

    134
    Jul 31, 2009
    Agree with Possumgravy - try the simplest first.  Clean and lube.  Then send to KelTec or change parts. :-/
     
  6. RAT76

    RAT76 Active Member

    Aug 21, 2006
    Oklahoma
    First some of these little guys won't run dirty. My P3AT would run for around 50 rounds & start gumming up and that was with proper lubrication.

    MANY will not run without GREASE on the slide rails. My P40 which runs like a Swiss watch won't make it thru a magazine with just oil.

    Proper lube for a P3 or any KT Pistol is grease on the slide rails, hammer/slide interface bar & assembly pin. Oil everywhere else.

    Any grease will do. Crisco if that's all you got.

    During breakin or extended range sessions use a lot of grease. For carry where you are only concerned with getting off a dozen shots or so use less but use some grease.
     
  7. KuduKing

    KuduKing New Member

    60
    Aug 27, 2005
    Thanks for the comments. I sent the pistol back to KT, haven't gotten it back yet.

    I've been shooting professionally for over 20 years; the pistol is maintained after every firing session. As noted, the slide binding only started after about 200 perfect rounds, so something went amiss somewhere.

    I note that grease is not recommended by Kel Tec, nor is any reference to it to be found in the P3AT manual. Not trying to get into the grease/oil debate, but generally speaking grease is for internal bearings, oil for working surfaces. Personally, I don't want grease on a pistol, and properly made and designed shouldn't require it. None of my other KTs - 2 P32s, another P3AT 2nd Gen, and 2 PF9s, have required grease to be reliable.

    DaveNC is on to something; perhaps a bad extractor. Still not sure why the slide is binding, as if the frame or slide is bent or cracked at some point.

    As soon as I get the pistol back, I'll make a report.
     
  8. streetprowler

    streetprowler New Member

    219
    Nov 29, 2004
    I've heard old-timers say the same thing, but I have also heard that Crisco, being animal fat, has an acidic pH which promotes rust. Anyone have any experiences with this? May be an old wives' tale...
     
  9. Ka6otm

    Ka6otm New Member

    441
    Sep 12, 2007
    It's an old wives' tale.

    Crisco is a brand of shortening that is popular in the United States. It was first produced in 1911 by Procter & Gamble and was the first shortening to be made entirely of vegetable oil. As such, Crisco may be considered appropriate for vegan diets as it contains no animal products.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisco

    Ka6otm
     
  10. streetprowler

    streetprowler New Member

    219
    Nov 29, 2004
    There you have it! Thanks for the G2.
     
  11. KuduKing

    KuduKing New Member

    60
    Aug 27, 2005
    Called KT a few days ago on the repair status. Advised that they received it 7 weeks ago and that they are running 8-10 weeks on repairs, "So you have a few weeks to go". :-/ Based on past performance, I think that is fairly unsatisfactory. Six weeks max would be about right.
     
  12. WesKCMO

    WesKCMO New Member

    90
    Aug 25, 2009
    Kansas City, Missouri
    geez... I wonder whats goin on down there in Florida. They were always known for their QS... I wonder whats up with all the wait times lately.
     
  13. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    8 weeks is always about right, some more, some less
     
  14. abuck50

    abuck50 New Member

    Aug 21, 2008
    NW Ohio
    Please let us know what was wrong with it when you get it back. The only thing I can think of that would cause that is worn slide rails in the frame. I know you don't believe in putting grease there, but you are the one with a binding slide. LOL.

    have a great day
    Craig
     
  15. I've always used synthetic grease on my slide rails on all of my semi autos. Slick 50 is the grease I use and I've never had a malfunction with either of my Kel-Tecs, the P-3AT or my P-40.
    Check the slide rails of a gun that's only had oil applied and it won't be long until they are dry after being carried for a few weeks. Check the ones with grease and they'll still be lubricated as if it was just done that day.
    Someone's gonna say they need to be cleaned more often than that but we all know that there's guns that don't get cleaned as often as they should and if that's the case for anyone then that's all the more reason to use grease vs. oil.
     
  16. spence13e

    spence13e New Member

    May 11, 2006
    Kansas
    don't see anything where they do NOT condone the use of grease. these guys are SO light that sometimes they need a little extra help to keep running. along with that, i've shot a fair number of guns where grease is the stated lubricant. (yes, they're a heap larger, but it's still in the manual. including, but not limited to: M240B, M1A/M14, M2, and M249). if it helps the gun work better, why NOT use it?
     
  17. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    For the past 6 - 12 months, yes.  In years past though, 2 to 4 weeks was more common with an average around 3 weeks. I recall a time when 6 weeks was the absolute longest I had ever heard and that was caught up in the Holiday closing.  Their service department is much slower lately than they used to be.  I know their production has been going like crazy for the past few years.  Maybe they are still getting by with the same number of service techs with many more guns out there, I don't know. I do know their turn-around time ain't what it used to be and I hope that gets fixed.  As most folks know, it gets even slower when they shut down for 2 weeks at Christmast and then head for the SHOT Show a few weeks later.  Geez...  what's it going to be then?  :-/
     
  18. WesKCMO

    WesKCMO New Member

    90
    Aug 25, 2009
    Kansas City, Missouri
    For the past 6 - 12 months, yes.  In years past though, 2 to 4 weeks was more common with an average around 3 weeks.  I recall a time when 6 weeks was the absolute longest I had ever heard and that was caught up in the Holiday closing.  Their service department is much slower lately than they used to be.  I know their production has been going like crazy for the past few years.  Maybe they are still getting by with the same number of service techs with many more guns out there, I don't know. I do know their turn-around time ain't what it used to be and I hope that gets fixed.  As most folks know, it gets even slower when they shut down for 2 weeks at Christmast and then head for the SHOT Show a few weeks later.  Geez...  what's it going to be then?  :-/[/quote]

    +1... my thoughts exactly

    2 - 4 weeks sounds soooo much better
     
  19. hump

    hump New Member

    47
    Feb 22, 2009
    Not all P3AT's need grease. Mine runs perfect with Rem oil. I actually bought the gun 3 years ago, fired 2 mag's thru it to make sure it worked and did not clean or shoot if for 2 years. I got back into shooting about 6 months ago and it has ran perfect every time I tookit to the range. After I found this site I did a F&B and now clean it frequently.
     
  20. KuduKing

    KuduKing New Member

    60
    Aug 27, 2005
    9 weeks and still waiting... Glad I have a spare.