Similar carry to PF9
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Subcompact 9mm's in the same size/weight category as the PF9:
1. Kahr CW9
PRO: Reliable, stainless, USA-made, great trigger.
CON: Kinda pricey (around $400 new), doesn't take well to sling-shot loading of first round, some issue with spare mags pooping out rounds into your pocket unless you use a snug-fitting holster of some kind.
2. Kahr CM9
PRO: All same as CW9, just a slightly smaller grip (might be a plus for some).
CON: All same as CW9, but slightly smaller grip (might be a minus for some).
3. Smith & Wesson M&P Shield
PRO: Stainless with Melonite finish, USA-made, reliable for most users SO FAR, nice trigger, stainless mags have tapered top end like double-stack mags for easy reloads, manual safety lever.
CON: New design may have early-model bugs, somewhat expensive right now ($400 to $450), manual safety lever, not quite as light or as compact as others in this group.
4. Diamondback DB9
PRO: About the smallest, thinnest, lightest semi-auto 9mm on the market, reasonably priced, available in stainless, Glock-like field strip process, nice trigger.
CON: No last round hold-open, prone to limp-wristing, many reports of hit-or-miss quality control (either it works 100% or it's a lemon), absolutely no +P or 147gr ammo per user's manual.
5. Ruger LC9
PRO: Sort of like a PF9 Version 1.5, slightly more refined production, smoother exterior feel, manual safety.
CON: Poor trigger pull (about 5 lbs. but VERY long), some reports of light primer strikes, manual safety, magazine disconnect safety, goofy loaded chamber indicator.
6. Walther PPS
PRO: Pretty reliable, decent trigger, and ... umm ... yeah. Not sure what else.
CON: Pretty expensive ($500+), weird magazine release, not USA-made, not quite as small as others in same size/weight group.
7. Bersa BP9 Concealed Carry
PRO: Good reliability reports so far, reasonably priced (just under $400), available in stainless (or is it nickel?), comes with 2 magazines, really nice trigger with very short reset.
CON: Not USA-made, new model (may be prone to early-version bugs).
8. Taurus PT709 Slim
PRO: Soft-shooting for its size, nice ergonomics, Glock-like field strip, reasonable price (around $350), available in stainless, comes with 2 magazines, trigger has very short reset (fast follow-up shots), has second-strike trigger capability (reverts to DA trigger on dead primer), manual safety.
CON: Not USA-made, trigger has weird feel (LOTS of slack in SA mode), manual safety, Taurus has very hit-or-miss quality control reputation (either works flawlessly or not at all), not quite as light as others in this category.
9. Rohrbaugh R9
PRO: Pretty much the ultimate in size/weight 9mm specs, supreme fit and finish quality.
CON: INSANELY expensive ($1,000+), so if you ever had to actually use it for defense, your ridiculously expensive pistol goes bye-bye and may never come back (lawsuits, stolen, whatever) ... and, if it eventually does, it's likely to have been knocked around and generally not properly cared for. And anyway, who the heck in their right mind carries a $1,000 pocket-sized 9mm for defense? Sorta like having a $100k pickup truck to use for farm work.
10. Kimber Solo
PRO: Like a miniature 1911, same controls and similar looks, very nice fit/finish.
CON: Excessively expensive ($600+), SA only trigger requires use of manual safety to safely carry Condition One (unlike any of the above pistols), some reports of ammo-picky and limp-wrist-prone pistols.
That's about the only ones equivalent to the PF9 that I know of right off hand. There's also a few double-stack 9mm's by Taurus, Bersa, and others, but that's getting up into a slightly bigger compact 9mm category like the Glock 26 and such.
Hope this helps!
1. Kahr CW9
PRO: Reliable, stainless, USA-made, great trigger.
CON: Kinda pricey (around $400 new), doesn't take well to sling-shot loading of first round, some issue with spare mags pooping out rounds into your pocket unless you use a snug-fitting holster of some kind.
2. Kahr CM9
PRO: All same as CW9, just a slightly smaller grip (might be a plus for some).
CON: All same as CW9, but slightly smaller grip (might be a minus for some).
3. Smith & Wesson M&P Shield
PRO: Stainless with Melonite finish, USA-made, reliable for most users SO FAR, nice trigger, stainless mags have tapered top end like double-stack mags for easy reloads, manual safety lever.
CON: New design may have early-model bugs, somewhat expensive right now ($400 to $450), manual safety lever, not quite as light or as compact as others in this group.
4. Diamondback DB9
PRO: About the smallest, thinnest, lightest semi-auto 9mm on the market, reasonably priced, available in stainless, Glock-like field strip process, nice trigger.
CON: No last round hold-open, prone to limp-wristing, many reports of hit-or-miss quality control (either it works 100% or it's a lemon), absolutely no +P or 147gr ammo per user's manual.
5. Ruger LC9
PRO: Sort of like a PF9 Version 1.5, slightly more refined production, smoother exterior feel, manual safety.
CON: Poor trigger pull (about 5 lbs. but VERY long), some reports of light primer strikes, manual safety, magazine disconnect safety, goofy loaded chamber indicator.
6. Walther PPS
PRO: Pretty reliable, decent trigger, and ... umm ... yeah. Not sure what else.
CON: Pretty expensive ($500+), weird magazine release, not USA-made, not quite as small as others in same size/weight group.
7. Bersa BP9 Concealed Carry
PRO: Good reliability reports so far, reasonably priced (just under $400), available in stainless (or is it nickel?), comes with 2 magazines, really nice trigger with very short reset.
CON: Not USA-made, new model (may be prone to early-version bugs).
8. Taurus PT709 Slim
PRO: Soft-shooting for its size, nice ergonomics, Glock-like field strip, reasonable price (around $350), available in stainless, comes with 2 magazines, trigger has very short reset (fast follow-up shots), has second-strike trigger capability (reverts to DA trigger on dead primer), manual safety.
CON: Not USA-made, trigger has weird feel (LOTS of slack in SA mode), manual safety, Taurus has very hit-or-miss quality control reputation (either works flawlessly or not at all), not quite as light as others in this category.
9. Rohrbaugh R9
PRO: Pretty much the ultimate in size/weight 9mm specs, supreme fit and finish quality.
CON: INSANELY expensive ($1,000+), so if you ever had to actually use it for defense, your ridiculously expensive pistol goes bye-bye and may never come back (lawsuits, stolen, whatever) ... and, if it eventually does, it's likely to have been knocked around and generally not properly cared for. And anyway, who the heck in their right mind carries a $1,000 pocket-sized 9mm for defense? Sorta like having a $100k pickup truck to use for farm work.
10. Kimber Solo
PRO: Like a miniature 1911, same controls and similar looks, very nice fit/finish.
CON: Excessively expensive ($600+), SA only trigger requires use of manual safety to safely carry Condition One (unlike any of the above pistols), some reports of ammo-picky and limp-wrist-prone pistols.
That's about the only ones equivalent to the PF9 that I know of right off hand. There's also a few double-stack 9mm's by Taurus, Bersa, and others, but that's getting up into a slightly bigger compact 9mm category like the Glock 26 and such.
Hope this helps!
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Oh yeah, forgot one other...
11. Beretta Nano
PRO: Seems pretty solid in design, good reliability reports, decent trigger, reasonably comfortable to shoot.
CON: Fairly expensive (around $450), goofy field strip process, short grip but not very thin or light compared to others, not USA-made.
11. Beretta Nano
PRO: Seems pretty solid in design, good reliability reports, decent trigger, reasonably comfortable to shoot.
CON: Fairly expensive (around $450), goofy field strip process, short grip but not very thin or light compared to others, not USA-made.
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Hickock45 has done video analysis/reviews on most (if not all) of the pistols listed above. I'd suggest Googling his videos. He may get rambling at times, but he does deliver some good info. He even does Side-by-Side comparison of similar models.
Happy Hunting!
Happy Hunting!
Beretta nano. It says it is striker fired, but it is really a DAO trigger system. The price varies, I got mine for right at 400 out the door and includes a TN state fee. The take down is not goofy, its great: you turn a flat head screw 90 degrees and it is apart. simple! A penny or dime can turn the screw in a pinch.
If you just want size and weight, or a small gun, the sig p238 is amazing and has a good trigger to boot (single action!). It will be out in a 9mm by this fall.
Taurus 709 slim is pretty good as well.
I have had or have all these except the 9mm sig which isnt out yet. All of them go bang out of the box. The sig is my favorite.
I have also fired the ruger kel tec clones, the lcp and lc9 are basically kel tecs with ruger production. They work, if you can pull the triggers.
PF9 is the lightest of the bunch .
to go any smaller or lighter, you're looking at 380 cal
if you want "reliable" it's hard to beat a Glock G26 or S&W M&P9c.
Both GREAT pistols and both will handle hi-volume round counts .
That means you can practice regularly and often and not worry about shooting thousands of rnds
They're substantially heavier and thicker though...and most wouldn't consider them a "pocket pistol"...and rightly so imHo
next up is the Kahr CW9.
Good pistol from my experience , but not terribly robust like the two choices above.
Not known to be finicky about ammo
in the 380 class , Ruger's LCP is as good as any in that price point
lastly, if want as "reliable as it gets" ...snubby revolvers , Ruger LCR or S&W Airweight (or Airlite if you have deep pockets) are it
..l.T.A.
I was extremely disappointed with the S&W airweights. Wife cracked hers in about 2 months, and the clerk says he has seen that a few times with those. S&W fixed it, of course, but that metal isnt up to duty, its a fire it once carry it always gun.
Get the steel frame. Yea, its a little heavier. But it will last a lifetime. Plastic and alum are fine in some parts of a gun, but some parts really need to be more rugged, and these light revolvers went too far with the lightening.
Get the steel frame. Yea, its a little heavier. But it will last a lifetime. Plastic and alum are fine in some parts of a gun, but some parts really need to be more rugged, and these light revolvers went too far with the lightening.
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Aside from specs, warranty is also worth considering.
Walther = 1 (lousy) year.
Kimber = firearms are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of one (lousy) year from the date of the original retail - also does not include wear on parts...
Beretta = 1 year... 3 years if you register with their warranty service.
Bersa = 1 year warranty, then if you apply, lifetime service to original owner.
Kahr Arms = 5 year warranty. After that, non-warranty service will be billed at $65/hour + cost of parts + $25 shipping and handling, after you pay to ship it to them.
Diamondback = agrees to correct
any defect in material and/or workmanship for
the original purchaser by repair or replacement
ONLY. A service or handling charge may
be applied at the company’s discretion.
Ruger = No written warranty, but they do typically take care of problems via their service dept.
S&W = lifetime service
Taurus = lifetime warranty to the gun, not the owner.
.
Walther = 1 (lousy) year.
Kimber = firearms are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of one (lousy) year from the date of the original retail - also does not include wear on parts...
Beretta = 1 year... 3 years if you register with their warranty service.
Bersa = 1 year warranty, then if you apply, lifetime service to original owner.
Kahr Arms = 5 year warranty. After that, non-warranty service will be billed at $65/hour + cost of parts + $25 shipping and handling, after you pay to ship it to them.
Diamondback = agrees to correct
any defect in material and/or workmanship for
the original purchaser by repair or replacement
ONLY. A service or handling charge may
be applied at the company’s discretion.
Ruger = No written warranty, but they do typically take care of problems via their service dept.
S&W = lifetime service
Taurus = lifetime warranty to the gun, not the owner.
.
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I consider the takedown on the Nano "goofy" because, IMHO, no pistol over $300 should require any tools to perform a basic field strip. With a lower-cost, simpler pistol like a P11, PF9, or even a Hi-Point C9, yeah, I'm willing to compromise a little, and with the P11 / PF9, you can always use a loose cartridge or the corner of a magazine's pinky extension. But you'd think that with the Beretta Nano costing as much as it does and all, they could've engineered a simple takedown process that didn't require someone to have a screwdriver or penny or whatever around. I mean, it's not like the Glock field strip method is a new idea, nor is it exactly restricted by patent anymore (being that every other company is using it on new pistols now). They could've even just copied the takedown method of their own 92F/S - and why not, S&W did with the M&P Shield. Dunno why Beretta felt the need to try to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. To me, that's just ... well, goofy. 
To the OP, I was mainly going by your headline in the above. If you're looking at pocket-sized .380's instead, then the top three would be the aforementioned Ruger LCP, the Kel-Tec P3AT (the LCP is basically just a copy of it), and the Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380. For the size, weight, cost, and reliability, they're really about as good as it gets in that caliber. There's a bajillion other little .380 ACP pistols these days, but they've all got their own weird quirks - bad triggers, horrible reliability, too heavy, too thick, too long, too expensive, etc.
With small .38 Special revolvers, either a Ruger LCR or S&W J-frame will do nicely. Taurus and others make some similar models, but their quality control is a bit spotty, so I'd be leery of trusting any of those, myself.
Anything more compact than the above and you're getting into the realm of .32 ACP and smaller ... in which case I would recommend a Kel-Tec P32, NAA mini-revolver, or mayyyybe a Beretta 21A or Taurus PT22, but only as a backup gun option - definitely NOT as a primary carry weapon.
To the OP, I was mainly going by your headline in the above. If you're looking at pocket-sized .380's instead, then the top three would be the aforementioned Ruger LCP, the Kel-Tec P3AT (the LCP is basically just a copy of it), and the Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380. For the size, weight, cost, and reliability, they're really about as good as it gets in that caliber. There's a bajillion other little .380 ACP pistols these days, but they've all got their own weird quirks - bad triggers, horrible reliability, too heavy, too thick, too long, too expensive, etc.
With small .38 Special revolvers, either a Ruger LCR or S&W J-frame will do nicely. Taurus and others make some similar models, but their quality control is a bit spotty, so I'd be leery of trusting any of those, myself.
Anything more compact than the above and you're getting into the realm of .32 ACP and smaller ... in which case I would recommend a Kel-Tec P32, NAA mini-revolver, or mayyyybe a Beretta 21A or Taurus PT22, but only as a backup gun option - definitely NOT as a primary carry weapon.
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You should also consider surplus pistols like the CZ82 or Makarov in the 9x18MAK chambering ( right between 9mm luger and .380 ACP ). Ammo is easily available even at walmart. They are great little pistols that are extremely reliable and great shooters. They can be had for around the $200-$225 range and up.
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Hmm... Maks are cool. I have one, but they are all steel and quite heavy for concealed carry at 1.56 pounds or right at double the weight of a PF9.
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Yes they weigh a little more but they carry very easily. It is probably one of the easiest guns to conceal you can buy without it being a mouse gun. It has plenty of power, the weight basically eliminates all recoil and it's actually a littlle smaller than the PF-9 or identical size. So just because it weighs a little more means I shouldn't make the suggestion to the OP? Didn't realize differing opinions was a problem.
makarovs are great shooters, rugged, reliable, and accurate. Get 9x18; 380 costs more (nearly double per round) and is a weaker round to boot (slightly). I have close to 10k rounds through mine and it is still going strong. The 82 holds more and is bigger, and less comfortable (for me) to shoot. High cap maks exist but the mags are hard to find.
Only real thing about a mak is the weight --- and that they are collectable --- so the best ones (east german) are expensiveish and they weigh nearly twice a plastic framed gun. The sig p238 or p3at type guns really make them obsolete due to the weight factor, unless you want the weight to tame recoil.
Only real thing about a mak is the weight --- and that they are collectable --- so the best ones (east german) are expensiveish and they weigh nearly twice a plastic framed gun. The sig p238 or p3at type guns really make them obsolete due to the weight factor, unless you want the weight to tame recoil.
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Sorry you were apparetly offended. Like I said, I own both guns. The Mak is cool, but it is a bit taller, wider, and longer than the PF9, and is not a "little heavier"... The critical factor is that it is double the weight of the PF9. The OP specifically asked for similar size and weight. I see no problem in making the very substantial weight issue clear. And it is not necessary to roll your eyes over that.Yes they weigh a little more but they carry very easily. It is probably one of the easiest guns to conceal you can buy without it being a mouse gun. It has plenty of power, the weight basically eliminates all recoil and it's actually a littlle smaller than the PF-9 or identical size. So just because it weighs a little more means I shouldn't make the suggestion to the OP? Didn't realize differing opinions was a problem.
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Well for me the weight is only a little more I barely notice. I hardly see 21 oz's as heavy or hard to carry.
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Well, 21 ounces IWB or OWB doesn't seem like all that much, but in your pocket, that's a whole other story ... that is, assuming one can even reasonably fit a Makarov in their pocket. My P11 weighs about that much when fully loaded, and not only is it a bit too thick for pocket carry, but that extra weight makes it "swish" a lot in the front pocket, and in the back pocket it actually feels like it's trying to pull your pants down a bit unless you snug your belt up really tight. Something as light as an average pocket-sized .380, like the P3AT, won't give those sort of side-effects because they weigh less than half as much. The PF9 and DB9 are WAY lightweight for being 9mm's, approaching both the weight and overall dimensions of some .380's, but even being just a few ounces heavier than a "heavy" 10-ounce .380, they're right at the ragged edge of what I'd consider the max in pocket-carryable specs.
Then again, I've heard of some folks that are perfectly fine with pocket-carrying a Glock 26, so I guess it depends on how you're built, how you dress, and what you personally find comfortable ... which, really, is pretty much the case with ANY handgun.
Then again, I've heard of some folks that are perfectly fine with pocket-carrying a Glock 26, so I guess it depends on how you're built, how you dress, and what you personally find comfortable ... which, really, is pretty much the case with ANY handgun.
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Exactly my point and we don't know any of those for the OP as he left all that out.
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I have started pocket carring a heavy revolver. my p3 has'nt been in my pocket in awhile.
Think even with the extra weight it doesn'nt move around as much as a auto and bother your leg. Can't pocket carry the cm9 it flops all over the place in big pockets.
The grip on the revolver is twice as handy getting ahold of in your pocket and for pulling it out.
And i just bought a j frame to have one in the collection.
Think even with the extra weight it doesn'nt move around as much as a auto and bother your leg. Can't pocket carry the cm9 it flops all over the place in big pockets.
The grip on the revolver is twice as handy getting ahold of in your pocket and for pulling it out.
And i just bought a j frame to have one in the collection.
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I'd vote for the CW9. I have a PM9 and have found that it is the only thing other than my P3AT's that I can pocket carry - in jeans and more casual clothing. If I'm in dress pants, then the P3AT is with me.
While I love my PF9's and have found them to be perfectly reliable (after parts upgrades on the first one) they are just a tad long/tall for me to pocket carry.
A long time ago I did a careful comparison of the P3AT and the PM9. I'll see if I can find that and edit this post in a few minutes.
Found it...
http://www.thektog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235149
While I love my PF9's and have found them to be perfectly reliable (after parts upgrades on the first one) they are just a tad long/tall for me to pocket carry.
A long time ago I did a careful comparison of the P3AT and the PM9. I'll see if I can find that and edit this post in a few minutes.
Found it...
http://www.thektog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235149
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