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Discussion Starter #1
Finally got to the club today to test fire some of the new Hornady CD ammo. I also shot HDY 30 gr. V-Max's as well.

This is the first time I tried the PMR for accuracy as opposed to function, since the function issues have been resolved.

No matter the ammo, it shoots low and right. Not a LOT right but VERY low - maybe 6". I might add that I'm a southpaw and the range was about 12-15 yds..

I can likely drift the front sight to compensate for the "shoots right" but there appears to be zero elevation adjustment.

Any of you folks solved this problem?
 

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Are you shooting off hand or off a bench supported?

I ask because a Left handed shooter who "snatched" the trigger will shoot low right... While a right handed shooter doing the same will shoot lo left.

THEN lighter faster bullets will strike different points than a slower heavier bullet....

Move your front site in the direction you want your group to move.

Good luck,
CW
 

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concur on that info!

also, what might play a part.. is 'when' your PMR was made any new upgrades since manufacturing that may be needed.. which include a new barrel, new front sights (incuding elevation adj. since initial production).

cheers
k
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was shooting off hand at the time. Probably has a little to do with it but "pulling" shots to the right isn't a huge factor with the light triggers on these things.

I'm gonna try it from a rest next time to try & determine exactly where it's shooting.

Thnaks.
 

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concur on that info!

also, what might play a part.. is 'when' your PMR was made any new upgrades since manufacturing that may be needed.. which include a new barrel, new front sights (incuding elevation adj. since initial production).

cheers
k
What elevation adjustment? When did that come out? I certainly could use it. I bought mine new on Cinco de Mayo. The guy at the gun shop said it hadn't been in the case an hour, and that was counting the time I was on their range shooting one of my .22 rifles, half hoping someone would save me from it. It was probably made in April, March at the earliest. The front sight has two tiny Allen screws to hold it in place, but the only adjustment it seems to have is windage, which it needed (shot left a couple inches at three yards off a rest). It still shoots low about the same amount, but there is no elevation adjustment that I can find, and the owner's manual only says that the front sight is "drift adjustable for windage" and that this "requires special tools and techniques in order to not damage the front sight or the firearm's finish" and that the user should consult with a local gunsmith. Presumably, this special tool is a tiny Allen wrench, which happens to be the same size that fits the adjustment screws of a Lasermax laser (which is on another gun). I can't tell much about the front sight from the pictures in the manual, but those pictures feature the original fluted barrel. I might consult with a local gunsmith to get or make some shims to put under the slide cover to raise the rear sights a couple of millimeters to correct the elevation.

The apparent lack of elevation adjustment (coupled with the fact that my gun actually needs it) is my only disappointment with the gun. With one exception, it has never failed to go bang and it groups well with several kinds of common ammo. Sometimes, when the gun is dirty, it will fail to fully chamber the first round of JHP Winchester SuperX with the exposed lead, and would need a little help, but would always chamber them when fired. The one failure to fire was when a round of Fiocchi failed to cycle the slide enough to strip the next round from the magazine, and there was nothing in the chamber. 44 rounds of Fiocchi, one failure. Considering that Fiocchi is one of the brands the insert in the manual specifically advises against using, I certainly can't blame the gun. (Incidentally, Fiocchi, PMC Predator, and Armscor .22 WMR all apparently come out of the same factory in the Philippines, if not the same assembly line, judging by the boxes, the bullets, the way they are crimped, and the printing of the lot numbers inside the boxes. Only the labels and headstamps differ. North American Arms warns against using PMC in their mini revolvers since firing apparently can cause rounds in adjacent cylinders to also fire.:eek: I presume this warning also applies to these other apparently similar rounds as well.)

At the range today, another shooter next to me also had a PMR-30. Could that be an historical event? His front sight flew off, and less than a minute later, so did mine. Must be contagious.:rolleyes: Looks like a little blue Loctite might be in order. I don't want to tighten the screws so tightly that they mark up the finish any more than they had already from the factory, even if this area will always be concealed by the base of the front sight.

buzzsaw
 

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As far as I have read no elevation adjustment exists. Windage, yes, as yoh mentioned drift adjustability.

For elevation try different weight and velocity bullets. A heavier bullet will generally strike the target higher than a speedy light weight. Partially ecause of less time in the barrel to be effected by recoil. Now these little guns don't really have recoil, but the movement generated with the movement of the slide combined with the "pulse" of the ignition will effect bullet impact.

Seething else I will look I to once I actually get a PMR is shimming rear site. I know it removes so a optical site can be added and see the screws in the top
Of the slide appearing to hold it on. I would think one could shim
This to bring bullet impacts up and removal of some material from rear site to. Ring them down. But again I do not have a pistol to know of this is fesble.

I will tell you that more shooters, than not, will find "snatching" of the trigger or anticipated the trigger break as the biggest reason for the lo hits. ESPECIALLY indicated by left lo for a righty and right lo for a lefty shooter. We never want to admit its "ourselves" but more often than not that's exactly what it is.

As for the special tools as indicated by the sites "self" removal. Loosen the screws move the site either by hand or with a soft drift like brass aluminum or nylon and tighten screws. CHECK SCREWS periodically. Once your satisfied with windage. Remove the screws ONE AT A TIME and apply blue lock tite and re install. THEN allow 24 hours MINIMUM to dry before shooting again.

Good luck,
CW
 

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Discussion Starter #7
CW

The rear sights are molded into the slide. They cannot be removed. Mounting an optic requires removal of the 4 screws IN FRONT of the stock sights.

The front sights cannot be shimmed or material removed from underneath so far as I can see by looking at mine as I type this.
 

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CW said...will find "snatching" of the trigger....please explain exactly what you mean there

Impact for me was, low and left,I adjusted my front site so low and centered is POI now..I may have to have another look at things...I know the sight is part of a moulded and installed slide cover..might look into disassembling it to see if I can insert shims between the slide and cover..
 

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CW said...will find "snatching" of the trigger....please explain exactly what you mean there

Impact for me was, low and left,I adjusted my front site so low and centered is POI now..I may have to have another look at things...I know the sight is part of a moulded and installed slide cover..might look into disassembling it to see if I can insert shims between the slide and cover..
OK I assume your a right handed shooter? If so you can simply try it left handed and see if you still shoot lo left...

Snatching of the trigger is same as jerking trigger. Some people think they can quickly pull trigger yet not so much so as to effect POI... They are mistaken...;)

The trigger should break so as to be a suprise to the shooter. Otherwise it's either anticipation or snatching/jerking.

You can practice with snap caps in a safe area of your home. Place a target on a wall so you can also practice sight alignment. Start with a normal breath. Only let part of it out so your not expanding your lungs. Alighn the sites on your target. Begin to slowly and deliberately depress the trigger straight back. Do all this while watching/ focusing on the front site.
Upon trigger break, bring the sites back into alignment, THEN allow the gun to drop to a rested position. This last part is called follow thru and is very important part many overlook. Simply dropping the gun to rest at the report is a bad and hard Babbitt to overcome.

If you practice this until its natural, automatic thing like breathing or blinking, your accuracy will improve. Try same exercise on the range with live ammo, don't focus you mind on the trigger, focus it on that front site or if with a dot or scope the dot/crosshairs.

Good luck,

CW
 

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OK I assume your a right handed shooter? If so you can simply try it left handed and see if you still shoot lo left...

Snatching of the trigger is same as jerking trigger. Some people think they can quickly pull trigger yet not so much so as to effect POI... They are mistaken...;)

The trigger should break so as to be a suprise to the shooter. Otherwise it's either anticipation or snatching/jerking.

You can practice with snap caps in a safe area of your home. Place a target on a wall so you can also practice sight alignment. Start with a normal breath. Only let part of it put so your not expanding your lungs. All ight the sites on target. Slowly and deliberately depress the trigger. All while watching the front site. Upon trigger break, bring the sites back into alignment, THEN allow the gun to drop to a rested position.
If you practice this until its natural, automatic thing like breathing or blinking, your accuracy will improve.

CW
Thanks.. more stuff to try! My accuracy is already pretty good..but I'll take any improvement I can..gonna have to find some 22 mag snap caps..
 

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Thanks.. more stuff to try! My accuracy is already pretty good..but I'll take any improvement I can..gonna have to find some 22 mag snap caps..
I use just plain .22LR snap caps. The slide only needs to move a short distance to reset the hammer and trigger, and the snap cap will not be ejected if you are careful. I do, however, replace it after every fifth firing since the rim does get beat up after repeated strikings. It can be reused if you insert it into the chamber with the worn area away from the firing pin striking zone.

I can't remember where i bought them, but I got a package of 24 plastic .22LR snap caps for under $10 a couple of years ago. It may have been Bass Pro, but I can't remember for sure.
 

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CW said...will find "snatching" of the trigger....please explain exactly what you mean there

Impact for me was, low and left,I adjusted my front site so low and centered is POI now..I may have to have another look at things...I know the sight is part of a moulded and installed slide cover..might look into disassembling it to see if I can insert shims between the slide and cover..
Also check the position of your trigger finger.The center of the pad of the last digit is where you want to place on the trigger.Trigger in the joint of trigger finger may also cause off mark POI ....... DOC
 

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My PMR also shoots low about 4", and I am not jerking the trigger. Have enough target guns and pistol experience to know that. It is something I just have to learn to live with.
I like the front sight, so have not lowered it, less it would destroy the fiber optic.
 

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My PMR also shoots low about 4", and I am not jerking the trigger. Have enough target guns and pistol experience to know that. It is something I just have to learn to live with.
I like the front sight, so have not lowered it, less it would destroy the fiber optic.
Have you tried different bullets? Different manufacturers and different bullet weights will impact the target differently.

Good luck,'
CW
 

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I have and don't note any difference. My PMR is not a tight shooting gun. I have been using mainly the CCI as Keltec recommended but have used other brands like Win and Remington.
 

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Have you tried different bullets? Different manufacturers and different bullet weights will impact the target differently.

Good luck,'
CW
I have..this is from about 15 yards off a rest (dont remember exact distance) both targets at exact same distance off same rest..about 5 minutes apart..

Here is remingtons...



This is Hornady Critical Defense..



Hmmmm.. which ones you think I use now? :rolleyes:
 

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Yes.. I'm a big time proponent of finding out which ammo a particular gun likes to eat..ALL guns are different to some extent..
And... I always start out on a rest to try to take the "human factor" out of the equaision, then I know what the gun likes..
 

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I dont have the front sights with the screws, no problems. My pmr30 shoots well
with tnt rds from Speer, Federal, CCI, and,Hornady, does not like Rems or Winchester ammo.
I would on bulls eye if I could see target and did not pull to the left, both problems will be fixed in the next month, new eyes and more ammo down range.
 

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intresting..
hmmm, all the load i've tried show basic pattern and POI, which is also is POA on my gun.. that being said the the HD and GD shoot better than most (with improved performance) thus my guns load 99% of time. all other shoot well. my gun special i doubt it... my gun shoots better than i can shoot it. period.

just for grins..shot a bird house (empty) on a stake at 20plus yards.. 2 shots... open sights.. exit holes at less than 1.5" inches.

point is.. gunshoots better than me on any day.
no serious accuracy, poi, poa, issues here with my early gun + upgrades.

respectfully
k/v/m
 
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