Shooting my new KSG - First impressions

Discussion in 'KSG Bullpup Shotgun' started by Borderboss, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Borderboss

    Borderboss Member

    10
    Jun 13, 2017
    Chicagoland
    I finally got a chance to shoot my new KSG over the weekend. It's recent manufacture and I'm the first owner of it. Before shooting it, I added a few accessories:
    • Tasco PDP-4 red dot sight. This is an old model no longer made. It's got a 40mm tube and a 10 MOA dot.
    • Surefire flashlight
    • Larue handstop
    For ammo, I chose Federal Tactical Reduced Recoil #1 Buck. It looks like a great combo of shootability and defense capability.

    Here are my impressions from the first shooting session:
    • Bullpups kick (duh!!) I didn't realize what the recoil would be initially, even with the reduced recoil load. It's perfectly manageable, but it's different. I have the bruise on my shoulder to prove it. :)
    • The cylinder bore can still shoot fairly tight patterns with the right ammo. I don't have demonstrable evidence of this, as I couldn't hang a paper target at the range I was shooting at. I was able to only shoot at a three-foot tall, two foot wide stump about 50 years away. Once the red dot was sighted in, few shots kicked up dust around the stump. They seemed to be impacting the stump completely, or almost completely.
    • The slide action on the shotgun isn't as picky as I had been reading about. I made sure to always fully stroke the slide back before moving forward, but I didn't do it in a forceful manner. I just smoothly pulled back and pulled forward. No failures to eject or feed at all.
    • Loading the tubes is a bit of a pain, but got much easier by the end of the session when I was used to it.
    • The factory trigger on the gun is pretty decent. It's nowhere near my 1911, but it's not supposed to be.
    • The Larue handstop is a mistake. The impact of the handstop during recoil is concentrated on my left index finger, which was pretty sore after the first 15 shots. I took it off after that and everything was much better. I'm definitely going to look for a quality front grip that can take the pounding of racking the slide back and forth. Anyone know of one of those?
    Overall, I like the gun a lot. It's now sitting under the bed as one of the home defense guns at the ready.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    43
    Jul 17, 2017
    A good many KSG owners (and AR-15) really like the MagPul vertical front grip.
    This is a quality part and uses a very strong double bolt and nut arrangement to clamp it to the rail.
    Unlike other types, the Magpul stays locked in place and even on the first models of the KSG with the weaker lower rail, the Magpul's longer clamping system wouldn't break the rail off the forearm.

    To be fair, most of the broken early KSG forearm rails were broken off SIDEWAYS, not from the front or back.
    This leads to suspicion that the rail was not broken while operating the gun but by some other abuse.
    I've never heard of a broken rail while using a MagPul grip.

    http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...tinny-rvg-railed-vertical-grip-prod72630.aspx

    I have one on my KSG and like it.
    I did do some experimenting on where on the rail to mount it.
    I started out with it all the way forward, but after trying different positions I found that for me, mounting it in the middle of the rail gave me the best control.
     

  3. Borderboss

    Borderboss Member

    10
    Jun 13, 2017
    Chicagoland
    Cool, I'll check out the MagPul. I've seen it referenced a lot, but it's great to get a recommendation based on its strength.
     
  4. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    24
    Jul 11, 2017
    Absolute #1 priority upgrade: KT factory extended buttpad. I think I got mine under $50 shipped.
    If shes not fun to shoot and beats you up, you might not feed her properly!
     
  5. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    43
    Jul 17, 2017
    I tend not to over accessorize a gun, especially a defense shotgun. I've seen some shotguns with so much junk hanging off it you wonder how the owner can even lift it.

    The reason the shotgun is the most deadly firearm at close range is really that it's so fast to get on target and hit with a massive load of lead.
    While a rifle or pistol shooter is getting his sights aligned and on target, the shotgunner has already taken care of business and moved on.
    Anything you add to a shotgun will add weight and bulk, and that will slow down how fast you can use it.
    In shotguns "Speed kills"...the bad guy.

    What's needed is to do a Real World assessment of each accessory to determine what the actual benefit is and is it worth the reduction in speed of use.

    You have to wonder about things when you see a large magazine gun like the KSG with extra shell holders bolted all over the sides, and incredibly, things like spikes on the ends of the magazine tubes.
    If your gun is a range toy, that's one thing, but if it's intended to be an actual defense gun I'd wonder about the weight and how useful a pair of sharp spikes would really be.

    With the idea of being fast rather then impressing the guys at the range, my KSG is plain stock Black, has the MagPul vertical front grip, and the thicker Kel-Tec butt pad.
    I added the pad because I have a bad shoulder and need the extra recoil reduction.
    That's IT.
    I spent my time doing a deep "fluff and buff" to smooth operation instead of adding dubious accessories.

    Where I really went different then most people is with the sights.
    Most all KSG's are fitted with an electronic optic or pop-up AR-15 iron sights.
    For use as a pure home defense gun I couldn't afford a really good optic like an Aimpoint, the pop-up sights are prone to getting broken off, and have to BE popped up before you can use them.

    So, I bought an Archangel sight.
    This is a plastic version of some other companies aluminum sight and is intended to be an auxiliary backup sight on a rifle side rail at 3:00 or 9:00 o'clock

    The Archangel is made of some extremely hard plastic with steel bolts to mount to the rail.
    The front sight is an orange plastic elevation adjustable standard AR-15 sight, and the rear is a plastic copy of a Ed Brown pistol sight, adjustable for windage.
    I built a Kydex guard for the rear sight to give it the same protective "ears" as the front sight.

    For the short ranges this will be used at, this works very well.
    It doesn't have a battery or electronics to fail, is always "up" and would be hard to break off.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    24
    Jul 11, 2017
    I like this much much better than flip up BUIS.

    So im thinking you cut, sanded and drilled the kydex, then bolted it on? What thickness, and wheres a good place to get a little bit for cheap?

    The more I look at this setup the more I like it as it would work through my dot site window.
     
  7. FFocus

    FFocus Member

    15
    Oct 16, 2016
    Yea ARCHANGEL!
     
  8. Borderboss

    Borderboss Member

    10
    Jun 13, 2017
    Chicagoland
    I'm much more of a fan of a red dot on a shotgun. It's a single point of aim that's fast to pick up, and isn't hard to see in low light situations like iron sights. Iron sights are slower because your eyes want to line up the front and back.
     
    Michaeljager likes this.
  9. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    43
    Jul 17, 2017
    Building and installing the Archangel sight "ears" was easy.
    I used two thicknesses of Kydex.
    You can buy small sheets of Kydex from knife and holster building sites.
    I used Kydex because it seems to be a better material and it's available in many colors and in various camouflage patterns:

    https://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php

    https://www.holstersmith.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=546_54_136&osCsid=bvkmmv4pfh06kj5vcqttlappl4

    I used a thick .093 piece for the actual ears and a thinner .060 piece for spacers inside the ears.
    The thinner spacers inside give the sight room to be adjusted for windage if needed.
    These spacers are just small rectangular pieces positioned at the bottom of the ear pieces between the ears and the sight base.
    If you don't need to adjust the rear sight you can just use the ear pieces without spacers.

    To make it, I used a hobby knife and sand paper to cut out, bevel and smooth the edges, then used fine sand paper to dull the shiny inner surfaces to eliminate light reflection.
    I drilled matching holes in all four pieces and mounted them on the Archangel sight with small socket head bolts and nuts.
    I might replace the socket head bolts with button head bolts to give a more streamlined look.

    I used a Flex shaft and rubber abrasive tips to remove the plated finish from the Nyloc nuts and applied Brownell's Dicropan T4 cold blue to blacken the nuts.
    Dicropan T4 gives a true Black color, not blue, and seems to be more durable then most cold blues.

    Do an online search for nuts and bolts and you can find Nyloc nuts with a black finish like those used on the KSG, and eliminate having to go through the blackening step.
    OR, you can use ordinary hardware store black jam nuts and keep them tight with Loctite.
    Jam nuts also are thinner and would reduce the width of the sight ears portion.

    The bolts simply pass through existing holes on the Archangel sight, so all I had to do was select bolts that would pass through the holes.
    Since the bolts and nuts on the KSG are metric, I bought metric bolts and nuts at a hardware store.
     
    Michaeljager likes this.
  10. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    43
    Jul 17, 2017
    If you use the KSG at longer then normal home defense ranges the optical sights are the best.
    However at very short ranges the KSG can be used in the instinctive "pointing" method that the shotgun is usually used with.
    In that method, the gun is simply "pointed" with the bead the front sight and your eye the rear sight.

    The Archangel sight gives the KSG the needed flat plain surface needed, similar to the rib and bead sight on sporting guns.
    The Archangel also allows using the sights as a "flash" sight picture reference at close range.

    At close range the Archangel front and rear sights are simply looked over with your eyes on the target.
    This insures the KSG is aligned with the target.
    If you have time you can get a flash sight picture through the sights.

    Contrary to popular Hollywood entertainment you DO have to aim/point the shotgun to get hits at home defense ranges.
    Inside the typical home the shot pattern will be in about a 6 inch circle.
    Put up a 6 inch paper disk inside the home and you can see just how easy it really is to just flat miss.

    So, going for total reliability and not having to turn a sight On or pop up two sights, I went with the Archangel. It's always ON and UP.
    You could easily do the same thing with a long top rail and a simple bead front sight to duplicate a rib and bead shotgun sight.
     
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  11. Borderboss

    Borderboss Member

    10
    Jun 13, 2017
    Chicagoland
    While I liked the Magpul vertical grip due to the two points of attachment to the rail, I was not quite there with the polymer construction and the short length. I just ordered the vertical grip from Hi-Tech Custom. You can find it here. I liked the aluminum construction, the wider footprint of the two-point attachment to the rail, and the length. It's heavy, but that can't hurt with recoil management. I'll report on it after I have it in hand.
     
    Michaeljager likes this.
  12. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    24
    Jul 11, 2017
    Before you necessarily give up on this handstop, may I suggest moving/reversing it so the nub is on the very front end of the pump. Then, hold the pump without contacting the nub.
    When I first shot mine, the KT factory handstop in the forward position caused me a little blister thing on my finger just like you. So I learned to grip it without touching the nub.
    If you go verticle grip thats fine, but me, I like the way it handles with a horizontal grip better.
     
  13. Tackberry

    Tackberry New Member

    3
    Jan 28, 2017
    I bought the KT hand stop and reall liked it. Also bought the Magpul forward grip but never installed it because I liked the hand stop so much (personal preference). The KT extended butt pad is also a quality product and makes recoil very manageable. Lastly I bought the KT klydex cheek pad. My rationale was jaw on metal is usually not a good thing on a shotgun. Makes it very comfortable to shoot plus it was only $30. I'm happy with all those accessories. Saving for a Vortex sparc II for the red dot.
     
  14. Desert

    Desert Member

    9
    Mar 14, 2015
    I would love to have a KSG! also a CMR -30! OK Santa, i binna gud boy!
     
  15. ajfkdem1

    ajfkdem1 New Member

    13
    Jun 12, 2014
    Oklahoma
    I wish the Kel Tec boys would do the KSG in semi auto. I'd buy at least two!
     
  16. 62-10

    62-10 Active Member

    282
    Jan 18, 2015
    I've tried various "end of forend" hand stops and none of them were satisfactory. I now run a simple ladder rail cover. That's it.
     
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  17. 850sub

    850sub Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Pensacola
    I think they tried and the ATF shot it down.
     
  18. ral357

    ral357 Well-Known Member

    458
    Aug 21, 2015
    What's the legal reason "just Too dang scary"?:eek::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  19. dfariswheel

    dfariswheel Active Member

    43
    Jul 17, 2017
    I don't think the BATF shot down any proposed Kel-Tec semi-auto KSG.
    Remember the High Standard 10-A and 10-B semi-auto bullpup shotguns that were sold years ago.
     
  20. Michaeljager

    Michaeljager Member

    24
    Jul 11, 2017
    Not to mention the SRM 1216