[Codemonkey3]

So, I bought my KSG in September of 2015 and since than have never gotten it into a condition that I can actually shoot it without a horrendous malfunction crippling it before I can shoot even a box of shells through it.

So, just to outline my issues prior to this one:

* Spent shells became lodged in the chamber to such a degree that you had to slam the pump into a table or something to un-stick them. I was able to fix it completely by polishing the chamber.

* Shells getting stuck inside the magazine tube. I attempted to use a variety of aftermarket and Kel-Tec brand springs and aftermarket followers. Shells would become randomly lodged inside of the magazine tube for reasons I still have not been able to determine. I have stock KSG springs in the tubes now and low-friction SS followers and for now it is fine. I had bought the gun for home defense and kept it loaded, but after witnessing the magazine becoming stuck (requiring complete dismantlement to fix) I leave it in the safe so I do not know if this issue is truly fixed.

* Horrible double-feeds. Fixed with a new CTG(?) catch.

I have also done all the garage-gunsmith things I could. I polished all contact surfaces, lubricated it, replaced parts with brand new parts off Kel-Tec's website. I have added a bubba notice. I have shaved excessive plastic off of contact surfaces inside of the pump. I have done literally everything I could think of and still not solved this issue. As a last desperate resort I even used a dremel to carve and polish a 'feed' ramp into the chamber, chopped off excessive 'wings' from the magazine tube and other things I'm ashamed off. In the end, it didn't fix my persisting shell-hang-up-issue.

When these issues first happened I did the reasonable thing and contacted Kel-Tec to have it sent back. They would not honor service unless I had the original bill of sale to prove I was the owner. Well, I lost it. So I couldn't do anything. Not only that I live in NY and the idea of sending a KSG through the mail and back scares the **** out of me and even if I did I would have to pay a local sporting good store (the only place I know of) $80 to do the FFL and I just didn't want to do all that and THAN have to pay potentially a lot of money to Kel-Tec to fix a brand new $1000 gun that was broken out of the box. (I have since found the bill of sale btw but it doesn't help me now)

So, here is my last issue (as of this post) I need to fix. It has plagued me from day one.

I rack the shotgun, a shell pops out of the tube. Great. I rack it forward and when I do so the shell catches on the lip of the chamber or tops of the magazine tubes. It's as if the lifter arms are not raising the shell that extra half an inch to cleanly clear the chamber lip and go where it needs to go.

Before anyone tries to use the short-shucking thing on me. It does not matter how I hold it, what angle, how fast, how hard or how soft I rack it. This malfunction will occur universally at least once or twice every seven rounds. The malfunction is relatively easy to clear, all you have to do is pull back on the pump a little bit than rack forward again but it is still something that prevents me from enjoying it at all.

And again, before anyone asks. I use both High-Brass and Low-Brass. Doesn't make a difference, shouldn't even make a difference. But regardless the length of brass I have this issue all the same.

I'm honestly embarrassed with myself. I spent $1000 at a gun show (it was the only place that sold the KSG in my county) and had the gun functioned I would be okay with the premium I paid. But I can't do this anymore, I don't know what else to try, what else to do. I don't care what I have to do to it to make it work but at the state it is in now I can't sell it (it's broken and I bubba'd it beyond recognition anyway) and I have no gunsmiths in my area to speak of. I live in NY around the city. Even if I did I'd be ashamed to let them see what I've done to try and make it function or even have to explain it.

So if anyone has anything at all for me to try, anything. Let me know, please. I can tell you that I'll never buy a Kel-Tec product again. This has been the worst firearm experience I've ever had and if you have a KSG that works I'm happy for you but I wish I had never bought one. It's such a huge regret in my life at this point. I don't have a lot of money, I saved and saved and saved for this and now I have a broken, chopped up and practically inert gun that I can't sell and can't fix.

The only redemption I can see at all is if Kel-Tec just replaced the gun outright. Than at least if the new one didn't work I could sell it cherry. But considering what a hard time they gave me about sending it in for work without the original bill of sale I don't see them just sending me a brand new shotgun. Especially if they see what I've done to it. I'm not exaggerating when I say this is my biggest regret, family and friends practically mock me about it now. It's an in-joke now that no one at my house can sleep unless they hear me racking the pump. And when I do take it out to shoot and people try it they all just sort of give me dirty looks for paying as much as I did.

 

[62-10]

At this point even if KT charges you to fix it, so what?

 

[GUNSICK1]

Sorry your having so many issues Codemonkey3. I know you from NYF and if you ever want to use mine for comparison just let me know and we can meet up. Mine runs flawlessly.

 

[Codemonkey3]

At this point even if KT charges you to fix it, so what?

Considering what I've done to the chamber lip they may try to replace the barrel assembly, which is the part with the serial number. I think that would be expensive and it's also likely they could even refuse to work on it I guess since it's been messed with it like it is. I just don't want to spend the FFL fees and wait weeks to get an email saying "Yeah, the repair is going to be $600" or "Due to x reason we cannot service your firearm" I rather just figure it out myself. And my local FFL who is not only expensive gave me a dirty look for even suggesting I FFL a firearm with them. Not inspiring confidence.

My current thing right now is attempting to bend the lifter arms inward as much as I can without jamming up the action.

 

[62-10]

I have empathy for your situation, however big boy rules are in play if you don't have proof of purchase and do garage-level mods.

 

[Codemonkey3]

I have empathy for your situation, however big boy rules are in play if you don't have proof of purchase and do garage-level mods.

The proof of purchase thing I will take exception too. I have a SCCY pistol that has a life time no questions ask replacement warranty that goes with the gun. That is excellent. Kel-Tec wouldn't even humor looking at the gun unless I had the bill of sale (which I now have, I found it but it's too late now) and considering that Kel-Tec has a reputation for selling guns that are really cool but really, really badly checked for quality control I don't think they can afford any more bad reputation (though the fact the KSG has so many problems is probably why they have that policy)

I also had a brand new Glock that was ejecting brass into my face. I sent it to Glock twice completely free of charge and although they never fixed the problem they never asked me for proof or anything or to pay a dime. Infact I got free cases each time they sent it back. In the end I had to replace the extractor but I got it to function flawlessly and I am happy. The KSG on the other hand has been an entirely different story.

The garage mods, yeah, I'll admit I'm not proud of them. But if they had worked I wouldn't mind. This is my shotgun, I never plan to sell it (if it had worked that is) and I think I'm giving you guys the impression I took a buzz saw to it but I've only done mods I've seen on Ktog (Bubba-Notch, Fluff and Buff, chamber hone, SS followers etc.) and my own little angle I've dremeled and polished onto the chamber lip (Which does not affect safety or function and infact if I was able to treat/paint the exposed metal people probably wouldn't even notice.

I'm just looking for other things to attempt to fix. Because so far I've fixed a majority of my issues myself. I gotta come home tonight and spend another hour just sitting there racking and testing for function now that I've messed with the lifter arms. Maybe that will do it, I don't know. I hope so.

 

[CharlieB]

Considering what I've done to the chamber lip they may try to replace the barrel assembly, which is the part with the serial number.

No it ain't.

 

[Codemonkey3]

No it ain't.

I guess what I meant to say is the part they consider a "gun" is that chamber and barrel assembly. If they have to replace that than I just see it being an issue. I can order an entire KSG in parts from their site except that piece for that reason.

Edit:

Messed around with it tonight. It might finally be fixed? I don't know. No more hang-up issues like I've had since I bought the gun but do have an issue where shells are not being reliably extracted from the magazine (not as a result of my repair) due to the shell-stopper not functioning properly. I took the assembly for it apart, put it back together and it works. Once in awhile I still miss a shell but it may be because by the time I had gotten to that point my arms were tired from racking so I wasn't following all the way through like usual. The shell-stop is brand new too, I replaced it with one from Kel-Tec's website so maybe it needs to get 'worn' in.

I will take it out to shoot next week and report back. I bent the lifter arms pretty significantly in order to get shells to reliably clear the chamber lip. I did not perform this modification earlier because I mistakenly believed altering the lifter arms would cause the gun to lock or jam up if the arms got caught between the bolt/bolt carrier and receiving or something but there is enough room to make it fit. The pump is a little tougher, not as smooth but I don't mind man-handling it if it means I won't get constant hang-up issues.

 

[CharlieB]

I guess what I meant to say is the part they consider a "gun" is that chamber and barrel assembly

Sorry, you're misinformed.

The "gun" is the receiver. That is the folded metal part that the barrel slides into, and to which the magazine tubes are connected.

Kel-Tec, requires proof of being the first owner, a copy of the 4473 is what they ask for, for warranty purposes. That should be easy enough for you to retrieve.

Other than polish the chamber (remove the rough phosphate finish really), I personally would not do anything more to my own KSG. Reason being is that Kel-Tec are really good at getting them running great when there's a problem, and, its their expense.

Think of it this way. You've diddly F'd with it since you got it in September. A call to KT would have had it back and running great by November. Now its May and you're still screwin' with it, hoping it all stays working.

 

[Codemonkey3]

That was the issue though. I did call them and they kept giving me the run around about how unless I had proof I was the original owner than they wouldn't do anything at their expensive. I'd have to pay for the FFL, the repairs and the shipping back to me among everything else. Is it my fault I lost the bill of sale? Yeah, but I'm just saying I already tried that and decided to just mess with it myself.

I took it out today. I finally fixed this shell catching on the chamber issue entirely. It's gone now, all I had to do was bend the lifter arms inward so that the shell rode higher. So apparently it was out of spec because I never messed with it since I got the gun. The chamber was still a little sticky on ejection sometimes so I probably have to hone it again. I actually had it running like a sewing machine for the first time since I bought it.

Than I broke again. Like, maybe 100 rounds into it and suddenly my shells won't eject from the magazine. The little shell-levers lower but the shell stopper looks like it's pinching the shell there I don't know why. It happened on and off randomly and regardless how hard I pumped it would not eject the shell. If I closed and locked the action I could easily eject them by pushing down on the shell-levers but once I try to rack it the shell-stops appear to engage and just pinch the shell hard. So much so that some of my brass had dents in them from the shell-stop slamming into them or something, I don't even know how it's possible and I don't honestly understand myself. It only did it on full magazines. Once the tube had 6 shells in it the thing would work normally, so I don't know.

I'm serious if you guys want this gun I will give it away if you pay the FFL fees to get it to you. I don't want it. This thing has made me miserable and it is the single biggest regret in my life. I've never spent this much money on something that was this thoroughly broken before and I don't want to own it and have it looming over my head as the singular gun in my collection that is broken and even if I fix it I can't trust it to stay that way.

 

[850sub]

I don't know if you have stated, but do you have anything on the bottom rail? If so, remove it. Eliminate a probable.

 

[Codemonkey3]

Yeah, I tried taking off the vertical grip but it didn't help any. I went back out and it was successful this time. I ran out of ammo before anything went wrong. So probably 60 shells through the gun and no issues at all. I even ran the gun as fast as I could rack it just to see if I could slip it up and it didn't. No failure to feed, no shell catching on the chamber or anything. I ran it like those guys in that C-SOG video do.

When the gun runs, it runs good and it's a blast to shoot but man the journey to this point has been absolutely miserable.

I polished the shell stops again, I went hard on them too. I remember seeing a thread posted here awhile back where a guy got his KSG back from Kel-Tec with a new shell-stop and the thing was shaved down significantly so I just kind of mimic'd that job and it worked good. Not saying it will last or hold up but as I put the KSG back in the safe today I can consider it functioning.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ9I423hPLw[/ame]

My posture is bad because I had been up the mountain for like an hour and had to **** really bad. Not to mention I was intentionally trying to get the KSG to malfunction, just to see if it would and it didn't. I just wanted to run it fast and hard to see what it did. Also I'm standing on and shooting up on a significant incline. The table is level however.

 

[Cokeman]

If no one else wants it, I'll take it.

Have you tried calling Kel-Tec now?

 

[Sjpajek]

KT specifically states not to use aluminum or steal headed shells. (Your pic) https://embed.gyazo.com/ada561a5a4c349a71240668bdd251c84.jpg

 

[steppingcrane]

I think by KT saying not to use aluminum or steel shells is because of the potential chamber issue. The shell's plastic will more likely expand into the chamber walls thus causing it to stick. To me is seems to be a cop out, and their answer to everything that goes wrong with this. I would bet that 95% of the shells people are running through shotguns are these types because they are cost effective for practicing and just blasting through. I would think KT could have made a lot of more people happy by having a little more quality control and working on a smoother chamber and on a side note, reinforcing their polymer parts with steel in critical locations.

Anyways, back to the original issue of the shell getting stuck on the chamber lip, I also bent the lifter arms in more as this will make the shell "sit" and ride higher and have an easier time going into the chamber. One thing to note is that the lifter arms will be spread out again when when it's in battery (shell loaded and bolt closed) since the bolt is closed and spreading the lifter arm. This could cause the lifter arms to start to spread out a little farther again over time (to it's original state). When you pump the handle back the bolt goes towards the rear of the stock and the lifter arms will have released their "spread out" tension and close in a little.
(*Note that my shells would only periodically get stuck when trying to pump at what it seemed to be at a full automatic speed , which is almost unnatural in a real life situation. So I was essentially going faster than the shell had time to eject from the magtube.)

 

[CharlieB]

KT specifically states not to use aluminum or steal headed shells. (Your pic) https://embed.gyazo.com/ada561a5a4c349a71240668bdd251c84.jpg

Excuse me, but.... virtually all "brass" on shotgun shells is steel, and if you don't believe me then you can take a magnet to it.

I've never seen a statement like that from KT, only low brass statement.

Can you kindly direct all of us to the official source for your information?

 

[steppingcrane]

Excuse me, but.... virtually all "brass" on shotgun shells is steel, and if you don't believe me then you can take a magnet to it.

I've never seen a statement like that from KT, only low brass statement.

Can you kindly direct all of us to the official source for your information?

In the last 6 months to a year, they now include a bright orange sticker on their manual included with the KSG with that phrase. I'll take a picture later today of the manual along with the sticker and notes they included on my warranty service paper I got back from them. I believe a simple polishing of the chamber greatly helps this. Even without polishing on mine, in over 200+ cheap shells, I haven't had any issues of sticking.

Here's a link to a post here last October: http://www.thektog.org/forum/f92/new-ksg-yellow-orange-sticker-manual-264285/#post2359694

 

[Sjpajek]

Excuse me, but.... virtually all "brass" on shotgun shells is steel, and if you don't believe me then you can take a magnet to it.



I've never seen a statement like that from KT, only low brass statement.



Can you kindly direct all of us to the official source for your information?

This information is directly from KT. It was printed on my KSG manual when I purchased the gun. It is a big orange sticker, you would be blind to miss it. Is it on all KSG manuals? Don't know, but it's on mine and it's 1.5 years old to date.

 

[Sjpajek]

KT is speaking about the shells that are visually different than brass. They might be a few thousandths larger on the steel/aluminum heads? Maybe they expand from heat at a different rate than the brass coated? The fact is they say not to use them so do with the information as you wish. It is your gun after all.

 

[CharlieB]

My sticker mentioned low brass. Nothing about steel. Again, virtually all shotshells with metallic cases are steel at the rim. Some silver color, some brass color, some black... but all steel (with windowdressing). Personally, I've never seen an aluminum rimmed shotshell, but they may exist. There are also some wholly plastic ones.