[bluesdog1]

I gave up and sent my P3AT back to Kel-Tec to fix constant FTF and FTE problems >

This gun has been nothing but a pain in the a$$. I tried everthing except new magazine so I hope it's not that. No matter how much buffing/sanding/oiling/greasing/swearing I did I could not get it to feed and eject properly. I did all the helpful hints on this forum to no avail and tried a lot of didfferent ammo including reloads. I will never buy a Kel-Tec again nor recommend one.

If they get it working properly and I can trust it I will continue to use, if not dealer will buy back as used for big loss and I'll get Ruger or S&W small revolver.

The sad part is the gun when it works is fun to shoot, accurate and conceals great. Unfortunately, most times I cannot get it to go through one magazine without problems.

...plus it will take at least six weeks to get back :'( A freakin' joke in my opinion.

Bluesdog

 

[burley]

Just read your Sept post that included the following;

1 - Limp wristing, probably not as my main firearm is 1911 45 cal. which is very prone to this[highlight] so I am in habit of holding real tight[/highlight]. I did actually think this my my initial problem.  I also thought not allowing trigger to fully reingage was cause.

LW is a very high possibility. Comparing shooting a big 1911 to the little P3 is a lot of peoples mistake. They think ,heck I can hold a big ol 45 tight enough this little thing must be the problem. Read up the section on limpwristing in the Fluff & Buff / TecWerks section and you will find it is not so much a tight grip that is needed at all. It is simply locking your wrist and using a firm grip and allowing the gun frame to extend it's energy thru your arm thus supplementing the small shooting platform into a larger area.These things do not shoot like range guns and many people who are used to heavy range guns have this exact problem.
Course a mag problem could also cause problems. That was an easy one to check out...
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1206210540

 

[bluesdog1]

Burley, you get an "A" for doing your homework. I actually thought a lot about LW and tried different holds as you mention. I even had an NRA Instructor see if he could solve and still happened to him.

My frusation level boiled over one particually bad day at range so I decided to send back before I could try mag. If's it mag shame on me :-[

Again, I really like the gun, but so far its been way to much trouble than its worth.

When I get gun back I'll update this thread and if it was mag I'll eat my share of crow.

Bluesdog

 

[clint_lnl]

when I got my 1st P3AT ( was 1st gen) it was used (aug 2010) and was a POS. I said the exact same thing as you did in your post. But the LGS I got it at gave me full credit when I traded it in on a new P3AT he just got in ( aug 2010 ) and 250 rounds shot and NO FTF or FTE, best gun I ever own. I trust it with my life. they say if you do sent yours in they do come back better then ever. good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[rcmodel]

As a matter of fact, the 1911 is is not succeptable to limp wresting unless you are running a heavier then standard recoil spring.

Both of mine, and any stock GI gun, can be fired with just a thumb around the grip safety and one finger on the trigger.

No "wrest" involved at all!

As Burly mentioned, they are a fairly heavy all steel gun, and the frame weight itself provides enough mass for the slide to push against.

rc

 

[eccoboot]

that is a long time to wait for repair....

 

[billjohnso20]

Comparing a 1911 to a P3AT is comparing an apple to a 20 pound watermelon. A lot of people mistakenly believe that all handguns are shot with the same grip, stance, etc. This is no more true than saying rifles and shotguns are shot the same way. Heck for that matter, not all rifles are supposed to be shot the same way.

Based on everything the OP has stated, it sounds like limpwristing to me. It is very easy to LW these little pocket rockets especially when one is used to shooting full size handguns. These ultra lightweight handguns require a different grip, stance, trigger control, etc., etc., etc. I know this because like many who shoot KTs for the first time after only having shot full size pistols, I suffered from limpwristing. Once I learned how to shoot these guns the right way, the problem was solved. If I can do it with only one arm and hand that works, anyone can learn to shoot them.

 

[bluesdog1]

Re: Sent lousy P3AT back - got it back

As you can see when I started this thread I sent my P3AT back on Nov. 29th very upset and at wits end. I recieved it back in mid january, roughly 6 weeks. The dealer said they put new ejector and slide in and tested.

Yesterday was the first chance I wa able to take it to range for testing. If I had same problems I was gonna have it destroyed as I don't think a unreliable gun is a safe gun therefore I would not feel comfortable selling it under any circumstance.

Prior to shooting I put some CLP on slide rails. I also read the sticky here on preventing Limp Wristing to cover all my basis. Well, low and behold the gun worked flawlessly for all my ammo - 5 full magazines, 30 rounds. This NEVER happened before, previouisly I couldn't get through 1 mag without at least 1 or 2 failures. With each magizine I was expecting problems that never happened. I only had 30 rounds so I will test again next week, but I couldn't be happier at how nice it shot - no FTE/FTF

I don't believe LW was my problem as I focused on that prior to sending in. However, I don't fully rule it out as at least a contributing problem. Shooting this little gun is different than my bigger so I need to keep that in mind and adjust accordingly. I think the gun was defective, it happens. My dealer did split cost of sending it back with me, while not perfect I appreciated it none-the-less.

I will test one more time before concluding success and if successful I will look forward to carrying when carrying my .45 is not practical.

I will report back in week with 2nd results and thanks for input.

Bluesdog

 

[JFB]

Thanks for the followup

 

[BillK]

Good to read that you've finally had a positive range session with your P3AT. Sure hope the problems are now behind you.

Just came over from Glock Talk, fellow over there is near his wits end over his 36 that has been twice to Glock for repair. It sure is tough when you've got a "problem child" of a gun.

Take care...

 

[billjohnso20]

As Bill points out, every gun maker makes problem guns regardless of how much you pay for them. I'm glad yours ran fine. Hopefully your troubles are behind you.

 

[gbarber010]

Glad to here the good report. I have had 1-32 and 2-380's and all three have been flawless. Glad to see that KT has made it good. looking forward to your 2nd report.

 

[burley]

Good news, I hope round 2 is just as good  for ya  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

 

[bluesdog1]

Just had second and final test since getting gun back from Kel-Tec. Remington ammo, first 30+ rounds perfect, then 2 FTF's then remaining almost 20 rounds perfect, both two and one handed shooting. I experimented with grip I use on full size guns and did not experience any failures so I think the problem was in fact the gun and not limpwristing.

Overall I am very happy The gun had not been cleaned or lubed for about 60 rnds before the 2 FTF's, shot pefect after for another 18 so I am not concerned about it at all.

Today it will get a cleaning/lube but I reintroduced my P3AT to it's pocket holster and placed back in pocket where it rightfully belongs fully confident in its abilities

Thanks for everyones help.

Bluesdog

 

[copterdrvr]

I think all of the little pistols regardless of make, are very sensitive to being dirty... Lets face it-these little guns are built to such tight specs, there's not alot of room for things to get in the way of normal operation. My experience tells me that the smaller the gun-the more sensitive it is to being dirty. Heck, when I go to the range to keep current with my pistols, I won't shoot the gun that I'm carrying CC. I don't want to have to trust my life to a dirty gun.

 

[burley]

I clean and lube the KT's every 50 rounds.
http://goldenloki.com/gunsmith/keltec/lube.htm

 

[Flight_Chief]

You can improve the function of this little gun if you carefully coat the slide and frame rails and other friction points with "Lubriplate" gun grease or another high quality lubrication gun grease designed for guns. Wilson Ultra Lube, TW25, Slide Glide are other fine lubrication grease for Firearms. Avoid the temptation to use Mobil oil, wheel bearing grease etc.

The whole LW issue of these little micro pistols jamming happens when the slide velocity is decreased relative to the frame because the frame is moving backward with the slide. Superior lubrication gives you an edge and helps the slide function with less resistance and thus snap back and forward performing it's functions more effectively. High quality lubricating gun grease does a better job than gun oil or CLP. You can read about this on the Gray Guns website which has some interesting articles.

Also you should be aware that these little gun really start to slick up after 300 rounds of ball practice ammo has been fired in them. By a twist of fate I now own two of these little gems and they are totally reliable, but have always been very carefully cleaned and lubed before each firing.

 

[burley]

You can improve the function of this little gun if you carefully coat the slide and frame rails and other friction points with "Lubriplate" gun grease or another high quality lubrication gun grease designed for guns. Wilson Ultra Lube, TW25, Slide Glide are other  fine lubrication grease for Firearms.  Avoid the temptation to use Mobil oil, wheel bearing grease etc.
The whole LW issue of these little micro pistols jamming happens when the slide velocity is decreased relative to the frame because the frame is moving backward with the slide.  Superior lubrication gives you an edge and helps the slide function with less resistance and thus snap back and forward performing it's functions more effectively. High quality lubricating gun grease does a better job than gun oil or CLP.  You can read about this on the Gray Guns website which has some interesting articles.
Also you should be aware that these little gun really start to slick up after 300 rounds of ball practice ammo has been fired in them.  By a twist of fate I now own two of these little gems and they are totally reliable, but have always been very carefully cleaned and lubed before each firing.

I'll buy the parts not marked out but have owned and operatered more than a few KTs over the years and plain ol' bearing grease and Rem oil does just fine , really after tens of thousands of rounds I will not waste money on some gimmick specialty gun grease that is no better .

 

[Flight_Chief]

No need to buy any of it, you are free to use Crisco or olive oil if you like.

Actually it was good of you to point out your success with every day products. I also noted that you clean guns every 50 rounds and that certainly helps them run better.

Brownells sells a 10 oz tube of Lubriplate for $9.99, which could last a shooter a while and clearly places it outside the the realm of "gimmick specialty gun grease". Lubriplate and Plastilube are used extensively by M1 and M-14 high power rifle shooters and that may be part of the reason it is recommended/offered by Brownells.
http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/assemblyhtml/reassemblefeed2.html

I wonder when Lubriplate was adopted by the Springfield Armory for the M1 Rifle if wheel bearing grease was available, or they were just wanting to waste money? My guess is that it was adopted for superior qualities. Gray Guns is leading gun-smithy that specializes in Sig Guns and the owner is a very experienced competitor who also recommends Lubriplate to protect those high price Sig frame rails. I guess I tend to think that recommendations of professionals has merit. Following this thread I have noticed that my pistols get a bit slicker with a light film of grease on friction points, perhaps improving the function and reliability.

 

[tomdickandharry]

I have on hand from the bicycles I repair boat trailer bearing grease. I'd have to double check to be sure, but its a lithium based grease with water resistant base. Regular bearing grease doesn't have to be waterproof as it doesn't get submerged or in constant contact with moisture. The boat trailers, bike hubs and to a lesser extent slide rails are more prone to exposure to moisture. Most regular grease bases will absorb water and that's never a good thing.