Featured Seeking advice to make sub wife friendly

Discussion in 'Sub9 and Sub2000 Rifles' started by Century Limited, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Century Limited

    Century Limited Member

    17
    Sep 15, 2017
    I would like some feedback on what any of you have done to make your 9mm Sub 2000 more pleasant to shoot. What mods have you made or techniques that should be used to make it a more enjoyable extended range session experience for those that are sensitive.

    Please refrain from wasting anyones time by stating things like what recoil etc, as they do not help with the situation. I personally do not have a problem, but purchased the sub 2k for my wife who is a new shooter and thinks all rifles are too heavy and kick too much. I am wanting her to enjoy the sport and not be turned off by the things that could be avoided if at all possible. I realize the tradeoff between heavier guns and recoil, etc, and wish to make good use of the Sub 2k and the Marlin camp 9. For the time being, most shooting will likely be done at indoor range at 25 yards or less, some freestanding and some off bench.

    I took the sub to the range the first time and did much of my shooting off the bench which was perhaps set too low and I was leaning into the rifle a little more than normal. The observations I made were as follows.

    1) although i put a piece of hose on factory charging handle to make more comfortable, my wife will likely have issue charging the weapon.
    2) concerned that wife may feel cheek slap uncomfortable. I realize by the nature of design and light weight it will be there but want to minimize it.
    3) MY old eyes do not see front sight well. if open sights would like to upgrade to ?? fiber? chevron style?
    4) Wife prefers optics, but I would like to leave as designed so can fold and not buy fancy swing mount. Do QD mounts work repeatedly?
    5) Although I felt no pain, I noticed red marks on my shoulder. Concerned wife may feel it.

    I have done extensive research trying to find what works best on the gen2 in 9mm. Most results pull up gen 1 or 40 cal with little reflection on the 9mm g2 which can be expected as most people will not have issue like they do with the harder hitting 40 cal. I have read up on the following.

    1) charging handle options Sumo or extended length
    2) heavy bolt
    3) gator hide bolt sleeve
    4) ATI recoil pad
    5) Kel Tec Sub 2000 Lever Actuated Folding Rear Sight
    6) heavier brass bolt
    I have been reloading 9mm with loads being closer to the starting load than the max load to make it comfortable for my wife to shoot her handguns. I intend on using these loads.

    I would appreciate any feedback from those of you that have used any of the mentioned items especially in the 9mm version although some apply equally as well to the 40. I am unsure if adding too much weight via sumo and/or heavier bolt would cause feed issues. I believe I read somewhere where someone added both but probably had full power load. I would prefer to go with just the Sumo to aid in comfort, but also think the double length charge handle may make it easier to charge the weapon. Anyone tried both and have preference? I wish the double had a larger diameter and hate to add hose to it as well.

    As for recoil pad, I think I may buy another stock and fasten a pad securely to it. That way, I could swap back to unmodified original in mere seconds and not need to worry about the slip on ripping on me. I figure even with great reviews, I'd be like the few that had them come loose or tear. Has anyone permanently attached recoil pad and if so which one fits best? I would like the added length, but wife may not.

    Do the tube covers help when it comes to the slap/vibration or do they only help with controlling temperature? barely noticeable or definitely buy. I suspect my wife would shoot at shortest length and I would prefer longest, which also leads me to ask if an issue extending when cut short. Neither of us sports a beard so no issue getting pinched.:rolleyes:

    I sighted in with a Vortex spitfire 1x but removed it when I packed up to come home and have yet to try it to see if holds zero. I am also concerned if would be bad thing for top rail to constantly be putting on and off. I would also think better to keep cheek tight against tube rather than slightly up to look through optic when it comes to cheek slap as gun would not get a run at it to the cheek. I wish I had spent more time and tested it more at the range. again, I was leaning into it and likely would be totally different scenario had I sat more upright. Any suggestions on quick detach mount or height options that work for you? If stick with open sights only, have any of you added a tritium front sight? I bought a pack of KNS precision front sight posts and painted some to use, but it turns out that they sit higher above the threads so one cannot turn down low enough to get on target. I'd like to try a different one but they are $60 a pop and not sure if good for shooting targets at indoor range.

    Post getting rather long. Maybe should have split it up, but looking for combo good for new shooter that may be more sensitive than most. Personally, I would leave as it came aside from easier to see front sight post and use the camp 9 for a scoped rifle to use off bench, but that is just me. I am unsure what wife will want and I want to give her something she will enjoy. Both rifles will likely travel together since will use same mags.

    Thanks for any feedback.
     
  2. poppo

    poppo Well-Known Member

    418
    Jul 3, 2008
    A tube sleeve and a stock buffer pad would probably yield the most return.
     
    MarkCO likes this.

  3. Dnvrdv

    Dnvrdv Member

    4
    Sep 24, 2017
    I also bought a sub2k 9 this spring for my wife to get used to rifles. All 3 of these made shooting it better for not only her, but me as well.

    The sub2k has since been renamed “Awesome” by my wife!

    “Are we taking Awesome to the range?”

    Tacticool bolt tube cover
    http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/sub-2000bolttubecover/
    Even though it’s thin it makes a world of difference in the “slap” and noise. Our stock is set at the longest setting and stays there. Even with the added 1.25” from the recoil pad, but my wife is 5’8. I think the longer reach actually helped her correct her stance.

    ATI Gen 2 recoil pad
    http://www.sub2000ati.com/store/p6/_Gen_2_-_Recoil_Pad_(Generation_2).html
    This I didn’t think we needed until a day she shot a couple of hundred rounds through it and had some bruising. I like it since it lengthens the stock, and its a lot more comfy than the plastic.

    UTG High Profile riser mount
    https://www.leapers.com/index.php?mitem=Mounting Systems&itemno=MNT-RS10S3
    I mounted a old cheap reflex to this and it’s kept zero all summer taking it off after every range visit. Also helps keep your cheek off the buffer tube.

    The charging handle took some getting used to but no complaints now. I could see an extended one being handy for smaller people.

    Between the sub2k and our 10/22 she's now comfortable with the AR from bench rest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  4. Dnvrdv

    Dnvrdv Member

    4
    Sep 24, 2017
    Hopefully the links come through.
     
  5. Century Limited

    Century Limited Member

    17
    Sep 15, 2017
    Thanks for the reply and links. I have been really unsure on the bolt tube covers. While I would not be out a whole lot to try one, I have spent way too much money over the years on stuff that never gets used. I was thinking that even if it does not physically help, if it reduces the noise it may mentally help, which leads to same result - a more pleasant experience.

    I am not worried about the extra length for packing, and feel that a recoil pad will aid in length of pull as well as comfort for myself. I am happy to hear that your wife also benefits from the longer length. I was worried that it would get too long. Again, I realize the smaller size is more for portability rather than ideal length of pull, so not surprising. I am still on the wall on whether want slip on or permanently attach one. Maybe I should just glue the slip on one on.

    I have been playing with a few risers and mounts that I have on hand and find that some of them seem to rock on the rail and not sit flat. This really leads me to be concerned that I would not get back to zero if I remove and replace optic after each trip. I thought about just transporting gun in conventional case and disregard the folding aspect, but know I will fold it to clean and would end up removing optic anyway to avoid damaging it. I have actually been looking at some longer UTG rails on Amazon that take torx to install. I think the longer rail may aid in being sure sight holds zero, but I may be wrong. I would spend less than a minute more to install, but in this age a minute may seem like an eternity as we all want instantaneous results. Actually, I could use the rail on my CX4 Storm if not on this, so would not be a loss to try.

    Again thanks for the informative reply. I was hoping someone would state that they see benefit from the add-ons. I realize that a large percentage of people customize not for the benefit but the cool factor, which is fine, but not necessarily an improvement.

    If it were for myself and my eyes were 20 years younger, I would likely leave it bone stock or possibly add recoil pad only. Since for wife, I really need to make it as comfortable as possible or she will thing just a toy for me. My biggest concern will be her charging the gun as it does take a fair amount of strength. I wish there were an aftermarket double length charging handle that had a larger diameter. Maybe it would get in the way.
     
  6. yamadog35

    yamadog35 Active Member

    122
    Dec 14, 2008
    A couple of things I've done to my Gen2 9mm that I think are in the area of what you're looking for.
    Recoil Pad - I have the one that Dnvrdv linked to above and for me it really makes shooting the sub more enjoyable.
    Front Sight - I tried multiple attempts at off-set red dots, etc because I still wanted to fold the gun, but after awhile I took it all off. Too much hassle and it never felt comfortable for me. My old eyes had trouble with the front sight as well so I put in a Tritium/white stripe front post and now I can shoot it well with just irons. See photo below.
    Ammo - I have found that shooting 147 grain sub-sonic loads in the Sub makes it much softer shooting than with other loads - much more pleasant to shoot. I found this out by accident one day. I don't shoot the Sub2000 suppressed but I have other 9mm carbines that I do shoot suppressed so that day I happened to have some magazines loaded up with the 147grn subsonic ammo and used it in the Sub2000 by accident.


    [​IMG]
     
  7. Century Limited

    Century Limited Member

    17
    Sep 15, 2017
    Your sight is what I had in mind. Which one did you choose? I see some are made where you can rotate the sight 360 degrees after adjusting height (swivels independently) , some are two sided and one must set height based on half turn increments. The former is more adjustable, the latter more durable. I am not sure if good for shooting paper targets for precision or more for quick acquisition of center mass or 6" plate type shooting.

    I actually pushed a few 147 grain extremes ahead of some true blue when I went to the range as well as some berry's 124 grain ahead of VV N320. I likely only shot a couple dozen rounds each, but know they fed well. I was leaning into the sub and sighting in my sights then an optic that I did not really take the time to stand up and shoot as intended and compare the two. I was also sighting in a Marlin Camp 9, which I admittedly shot the most as I had a dozen magazines loaded for it and only had one mag for the Sub. My mag catch is due here in a couple of days and then I will be able to share mags with the camp. I am playing musical optics and may opt to put my Bushnell TRS-25 on it. I have it on a Beretta CX4 storm and it co-witnesses the factory sights, so hate to move. I guess there is fun in that too.

    I need to load some ammo and will start with the 147gr. I have found them to be a good load for our 9mm handguns.

    I failed to mention that it appears that my wife prefers optics/dot sights. I think this may be due to the fact that she is fairly new to shooting. It could be because her eyes are older than mine, but I think it is that her groups look better. I still would prefer she shoot the sub with open sights and the camp with optic. Then again, she really does not care what I think.

    Thanks again for input.
     
  8. Dnvrdv

    Dnvrdv Member

    4
    Sep 24, 2017
    I'm with you on functional mods. I see lots of cool looking stuff then think, when the hell is that going to get used?
    The tacticool bolt tube cover made the boss happy, and I was surprised by the difference. They sell a combo that has a charging handle cover for a couple of bucks more that may be worth a try.
    The ATI recoil pad adds maybe half an inch past the end of the barrel when folded. I really didn't want to spend the money on it, but now I think its well worth it.
    20170924_084149.jpg


    All the goodies in the case. Pretty sure its this one. Got it from Gander going out of business sale for $11
    https://www.flambeauoutdoors.com/Hunting/Hard-Storage/Pistol-Cases/17-pistol-case

    20170924_084138.jpg

    In action.

    20170924_082835.jpg
     
    850sub likes this.
  9. Dnvrdv

    Dnvrdv Member

    4
    Sep 24, 2017
    She's not reading this then.:) After mine shot the sub with the red dot she asked if all the guns could have them. I responded with, "How much can I spend?". The conversation ended there...
     
    850sub likes this.
  10. trisax62

    trisax62 Member

    4
    May 28, 2017
    Like you, my wife is a new shooter too and I purchase a KT Sub2K for the same reasons as you. I added the ATI recoil pad, Tacticool Products buffer and bolt tube cover, she still didn't like it.
    Bought her a AR15 - problem solved :)
     
    850sub likes this.
  11. yamadog35

    yamadog35 Active Member

    122
    Dec 14, 2008
    This is a good point. I MUCH prefer shooting my 9mm AR than the Sub2000.
     
  12. 850sub

    850sub Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Pensacola
    I would recommend a butt pad, the Tacticool 3 pack, extended charging handle, and a metal rail/forend either from the factory or Red Lion Precision.
    You can also modify the plastic rail to take the wobble out of it.
     
  13. Century Limited

    Century Limited Member

    17
    Sep 15, 2017
    I said my rail is high in the middle. I took a good look at it in better light today and realized that the left and right halves do not sign up properly. The right side is higher, so both top and bottom rails are not flat. I doubt I would be able to loosen bolts and align them properly, and hate to make it worse. Have any of you had that issue? I have been looking at ideas if wife would want optic, but want to have open sights as well. I will take it out and shoot it with optics at varying heights to see where I prefer, or if I should buy a flip down rear to keep red dot or scope low. I removed rear sight just to get an idea. I ordered a low riser to put on front of rail so I can fold most of the way if I leave rail on and quick detach to that. I put a pistol scope I bought on eBay a while back but have still not used just to see what it would be like. You may notice that I cut a chunk from old washing machine hose and slid over charging handle.
    Sub 2000 optic ideas.jpg
     
  14. Century Limited

    Century Limited Member

    17
    Sep 15, 2017
    I just ordered a tacticool cover. Contemplating the ATI full price new or factory second recoil pad. I am going to see if I can get by without double length charging handle for now. I need to spend the money on reloading supplies and an easier for me to see front sight.

    thanks again for your input.
     
  15. MarkCO

    MarkCO Active Member

    221
    Aug 30, 2016
    Colorado
    Agreed that a buffer tube cover and softer buttpad is worthwhile. I got the Tacticool buffer cover, but not a buttpad. Running a lower recoil 90, 100 or 115 grain load also helps out quite a bit.

    My wife still prefers the integrally suppressed AR9 though...at twice the weight it really cuts down on the recoil.
     
  16. Jake

    Jake Member

    39
    Sep 23, 2017
    I suggest adding either the tacticool or Mcarbo charging handle cover. Pop it in the microwave for 40 seconds or so to soften it up and pop it on with your thumb. The whole process takes less than a minute. When charging it what works best for me is to wrap my index finger around it but wrap my thumb over the top of the buffer tube instead of keeping my whole hand under the buffer tube. This keep my hand from banging into the buttstock and is more comfortable and provides better leverage. I use my strong hand, my right hand.

    The tacticool bolt tube cover is a must too. Have her try all three stock positions and choose her most comfortable then cut it to fit.

    About the front sight, I wanted to try out something higher viz than black so I bought a $1.60 bottle of liquid paper and painted the back side of it white. I can't believe it but it's working great, at least until I grab a night sight for it.
     
    850sub likes this.
  17. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Ok, if you continue to refer to her as your sub-wife, don't expect her to be friendly. :)
     
  18. Brasky

    Brasky Member

    46
    Jul 22, 2017
    I guarantee any discomfort is caused from her holding it wrong. My 100lb sister never shot a firearm until my kel tec and has no discomfort.

    The bolt tube cover helps for shooting in cold but that's it
     
  19. tuxnjeans

    tuxnjeans Member

    1
    Jun 19, 2016
    I just bought an ATI factory-2nd recoil pad ($23 vs.$40 for factory-1st) and I honestly couldn't tell you why it's a "second". Not a blem on it and it fits perfectly. Still scratching my head over my good luck on that deal! YMMV, but I'm happy with the way mine worked out.
     
  20. 850sub

    850sub Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Pensacola
    I've had shooters comment on the S2K recoil.
    Way more than a 5.56 AR.
    Especially if bone stock.
    Adding weight (accessories) is a way to help mitigate recoil.