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Hi folks...
I have only posted here once before. I am a lifelong resident of Santa Monica California (trying to leave) and you folks may have seen on TV that our city descended into chaos on Sunday. I had purchased a Kel Tec Sub 2000 a few months back and had only taken it to the range once where it preformed flawlessly as I put about 150 rounds through it. I just wanted to say how happy I was that I had such a versatile weapon available to me. We had Antifa at the top of our street and even in our alley and had things gone a little more sideways I think the Sub 2000 would be the perfect tool to protect life and property in such a situation. Thank you Kel Tec.....
 

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I agree. It would function in the role you suggest admirably. Just be sure it's used to protect life and even then you better hope the DA doesn't have a hair across his ass for you. The higher profile the situation the more likely that will be.

You have the right idea, get outta Dodge before SHTF. But assuming you'll be there for a time, are there any like minded folks you know? There's strength in numbers. They know the cops won't shoot, but you're an unknown, esp' if you project a willingness to stand up to them as a unified group.

I used my s2k in competition and I can't tell you how many thousand rounds of butterfly fart reloads it fired with no malfunctions. In the interest of full disclosure I used aluminum cased ammo one match and it was a jamamatic. But use brass cased and it never has a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I agree. It would function in the role you suggest admirably. Just be sure it's used to protect life and even then you better hope the DA doesn't have a hair across his *** for you. The higher profile the situation the more likely that will be.

You have the right idea, get outta Dodge before SHTF. But assuming you'll be there for a time, are there any like minded folks you know? There's strength in numbers. They know the cops won't shoot, but you're an unknown, esp' if you project a willingness to stand up to them as a unified group.

I used my s2k in competition and I can't tell you how many thousand rounds of butterfly fart reloads it fired with no malfunctions. In the interest of full disclosure I used aluminum cased ammo one match and it was a jamamatic. But use brass cased and it never has a problem.
Curious...have you ever used steel case rounds in yours??
It's easier to wield and lighter than a shotgun and I'm sure more accurate than my 1911... Only to be used in the most extreme situations of course. I was worried about someone setting our apartment building on fire as there had been fires set in another neighborhood the night before. I stayed up till dawn checking the area every half an hour. Don't really think my immediate neighbors are sympathetic so I was on my own but you would be surprised how many gun owners there are in this uber-left area...
There were a number of local businesses that escaped looting and vandalism because store owners were armed and out front of their stores....
 

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Welcome to the forum and I hope that you enjoy the good company out here as much as I do. I also hope that you are enjoying you sub2000 and just as proud of yours as I'm mine. I have total confidence in the sub2000 defending family, home, self and property.Be it against Antifa or any Fascist groups. I don't sympathize with either of the two because to me they are one in the same and I don't care for one or the other's ideology.........so let me get back to the Kel Tec sub 2000 sir, I have nothing but positive things to say about the sub 2000. I spent a good bit of time last week out on other forums advocating for it. I refuse to not mention the sub2000 and the versatility and how it can be upgraded for reliability and a more durable firearm. With the right training and up grades.....it can be a very lethal SHTF defensive firearm. When i put it in my truck at times or beside my night stand at night I feel pretty good about it. I would say you made a good choice brother.
 

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View attachment 49244 Welcome to the forum and I hope that you enjoy the good company out here as much as I do. I also hope that you are enjoying you sub2000 and just as proud of yours as I'm mine. I have total confidence in the sub2000 defending family, home, self and property.Be it against Antifa or any Fascist groups. I don't sympathize with either of the two because to me they are one in the same and I don't care for one or the other's ideology.........so let me get back to the Kel Tec sub 2000 sir, I have nothing but positive things to say about the sub 2000. I spent a good bit of time last week out on other forums advocating for it. I refuse to not mention the sub2000 and the versatility and how it can be upgraded for reliability and a more durable firearm. With the right training and up grades.....it can be a very lethal SHTF defensive firearm. When i put it in my truck at times or beside my night stand at night I feel pretty good about it. I would say you made a good choice brother.
Thank you for your post... I think you are right ...SHTF ... night stand ready or truck gun... Pretty versatile..
I am curious what upgrades you would recommend? Before I fired it I added Mcarbo heavier charging handle...rubber bolt cover...recoil buffer and higher open rear sight. I also bought an aluminium trigger guard and different trigger spring but I'm a little intimidated about taking it apart as even the guy in the Mcarbo video seemed to have some trouble reassembling it...lol
I have to admit when I first saw a Sub 2000 I thought it was ugly as sin....but the more I started thinking about it you just can't argue with the design and now I think it's genius. I'm just glad I got it before the virus started getting everyone buying firearms because they seemed to become unavailable pretty quick. My stupid home state of California won't let you collapse the stock an inch and a half because that might make it more concealable but they don't mind that you can fold it in half...unbelievable...
 

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Thank you for your post... I think you are right ...SHTF ... night stand ready or truck gun... Pretty versatile..
I am curious what upgrades you would recommend? Before I fired it I added Mcarbo heavier charging handle...rubber bolt cover...recoil buffer and higher open rear sight. I also bought an aluminium trigger guard and different trigger spring but I'm a little intimidated about taking it apart as even the guy in the Mcarbo video seemed to have some trouble reassembling it...lol
I have to admit when I first saw a Sub 2000 I thought it was ugly as sin....but the more I started thinking about it you just can't argue with the design and now I think it's genius. I'm just glad I got it before the virus started getting everyone buying firearms because they seemed to become unavailable pretty quick. My stupid home state of California won't let you collapse the stock an inch and a half because that might make it more concealable but they don't mind that you can fold it in half...unbelievable...
You are welcome brother..... I did not do all of the internal up grades. I only upgraded the stainless steel feed ramp and hammer bushing. Getting the plastic parts out was a must for me. I also did some polishing on the new feed ramp as well. IMO the stainless feed ramp is a big improvement to ward off feeding issues. I added a relative cheap Tru glow red/green dot and a 1200 lumens flash light. The red dot is made right up the streets from my home in Richardson Texas.....Also opening up the the sub is not to big of a task. If I can do it any body can do it but try and do all your upgrades at once. Everyone out will tell you this and give lots of help on upgrades to fit your needs. Get out of California and come to Texas. See if you can bring Tesla motors with you!! Lol!
 

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Curious...have you ever used steel case rounds in yours??.
Glad to hear that you made it through with no problems.

I have not tried steel cased ammo. Once I experienced the aluminum cased ammo I just stayed with brass (or nickle plated brass). If I find it for sale as individual boxes I'm not opposed to trying some though. Whatever works. But mostly I reload ammo that I can't buy, 800+fps 160 grain 9mm. It's not my SD ammo but for competition.

It could be that my sub2k is unique. I mentioned my experience to my brother and he uses aluminum cased in his with no problems. So my advice is to try it and see what works.

While I hold my sub2k in high esteem as much as Blackkat, they are frail when compared to a firearm intended for war. Butt stroke someone even once with it and you now have a fairly lightweight club. The recoil tube/buttstock will bend like a pretzel. Where I'm going with this is have plenty of ammo and mags. Don't run out.

I keep going back to competition because that's where I shoot most. It keeps me sharp and at my age I need as much of that as I can get. My PCC (pistol caliber carbine) gear belt has provision for 2 spare mags that hold 30+ rounds, and a dump pouch because the way one practices is what one will do when the SHTF. You never want to drop your mags on the ground. Even putting them down your shirt is better than on the ground. Run out of mags and you now have a very slow to fire single shot. But for SHTF I have a much larger mag holder. This is exactly what I have.
https://www.amazon.com/Galati-Gear-Pocket-Shoulder-Magazine/dp/B003VUVXIO
I've had it for awhile so maybe there is something better today, or a place to buy it where one can save $. It's an 8 pocket pouch, but with my magazines each pouch will hold 2 mags. That's a lot of ammo. I ask my brother if he has enough ammo and he tells me that he does. But I get the impression that he thinks 2 boxes is plenty (I don't ask). Wrong. If one can't disengage, and that is by far the best thing, then one fights and it's entirely possible to burn up 500 rounds in one firefight. How many mags are enough? No amount is too much for a firearm that one will use to protect ones life. I write that for emphasis, but at some point one simply can't carry all of ones loaded mags. More than that MIGHT be too many. If I told you how many mags I have you'd never believe me. But I need that many for folks who show up unarmed. One can't survive SHTF alone.

There is an author who lived through the Baltic Wars that happened not long ago. Selco Begovic is his name. He has 2 books that describe what to expect when the SHTF, and he's also online. His writings are worth reading. If you think you're ready guess again, none of us are. No one can be ready if it comes here and what he describes as a prelude could be happening right now. Will it push us over the edge? IDK. But I wouldn't want to be in a city if it does happen. That's why we go outta Dodge 40+ years ago.

We had a 4 day dress rehearsal 2 years ago, real SHTF stuff, where I lived with a long gun during that time and I learned alot and made some changes and I thought I was ready. My point is that if/when it happens no one is ready.

Now I need to go clean and lube my PCC SBR for competition this weekend.
 

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Hi folks...
I have only posted here once before. I am a lifelong resident of Santa Monica California (trying to leave) and you folks may have seen on TV that our city descended into chaos on Sunday. I had purchased a Kel Tec Sub 2000 a few months back and had only taken it to the range once where it preformed flawlessly as I put about 150 rounds through it. I just wanted to say how happy I was that I had such a versatile weapon available to me. We had Antifa at the top of our street and even in our alley and had things gone a little more sideways I think the Sub 2000 would be the perfect tool to protect life and property in such a situation. Thank you Kel Tec.....
Another good thing about the sub2000 is that it can be set up to share magazines with several popular handguns like Glock,Smith M&P, Baretta and CZ. I have mine set up to share with my CZ 75 clone Sar B6P compact.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You are welcome brother..... I did not do all of the internal up grades. I only upgraded the stainless steel feed ramp and hammer bushing. Getting the plastic parts out was a must for me. I also did some polishing on the new feed ramp as well. IMO the stainless feed ramp is a big improvement to ward off feeding issues. I added a relative cheap Tru glow red/green dot and a 1200 lumens flash light. The red dot is made right up the streets from my home in Richardson Texas.....Also opening up the the sub is not to big of a task. If I can do it any body can do it but try and do all your upgrades at once. Everyone out will tell you this and give lots of help on upgrades to fit your needs. Get out of California and come to Texas. See if you can bring Tesla motors with you!! Lol!
Thanks for the info...
I forgot to mention I also purchased the stainless steel feed ramp but haven't installed that yet obviously. I noticed your optic but I like being able to fold the Sub 2k in half and stuff it in a daypack if I need to tote it around inconspicuously. I know there are a couple folding mounts but they are a little pricey. I'll crack it open and try to install the upgrades when things are back to normal here. As far as moving to Texas I thought you folks were already getting tired of all the crazy Californians moving in??...lol.. Lot of down to earth people in Texas which is important to me. I have been looking at New Mexico and a friend of mine moved to the Nevada side of the Sierras near Reno. It will be hard to leave as Los Angeles does have a lot of positives ...some of the best weather in the world and more good looking women than you can shake a stick at (No pun intended of course)...but the negatives outway the positives and it's time to go...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Glad to hear that you made it through with no problems.

I have not tried steel cased ammo. Once I experienced the aluminum cased ammo I just stayed with brass (or nickle plated brass). If I find it for sale as individual boxes I'm not opposed to trying some though. Whatever works. But mostly I reload ammo that I can't buy, 800+fps 160 grain 9mm. It's not my SD ammo but for competition.

It could be that my sub2k is unique. I mentioned my experience to my brother and he uses aluminum cased in his with no problems. So my advice is to try it and see what works.

While I hold my sub2k in high esteem as much as Blackkat, they are frail when compared to a firearm intended for war. Butt stroke someone even once with it and you now have a fairly lightweight club. The recoil tube/buttstock will bend like a pretzel. Where I'm going with this is have plenty of ammo and mags. Don't run out.

I keep going back to competition because that's where I shoot most. It keeps me sharp and at my age I need as much of that as I can get. My PCC (pistol caliber carbine) gear belt has provision for 2 spare mags that hold 30+ rounds, and a dump pouch because the way one practices is what one will do when the SHTF. You never want to drop your mags on the ground. Even putting them down your shirt is better than on the ground. Run out of mags and you now have a very slow to fire single shot. But for SHTF I have a much larger mag holder. This is exactly what I have.
https://www.amazon.com/Galati-Gear-Pocket-Shoulder-Magazine/dp/B003VUVXIO
I've had it for awhile so maybe there is something better today, or a place to buy it where one can save $. It's an 8 pocket pouch, but with my magazines each pouch will hold 2 mags. That's a lot of ammo. I ask my brother if he has enough ammo and he tells me that he does. But I get the impression that he thinks 2 boxes is plenty (I don't ask). Wrong. If one can't disengage, and that is by far the best thing, then one fights and it's entirely possible to burn up 500 rounds in one firefight. How many mags are enough? No amount is too much for a firearm that one will use to protect ones life. I write that for emphasis, but at some point one simply can't carry all of ones loaded mags. More than that MIGHT be too many. If I told you how many mags I have you'd never believe me. But I need that many for folks who show up unarmed. One can't survive SHTF alone.

There is an author who lived through the Baltic Wars that happened not long ago. Selco Begovic is his name. He has 2 books that describe what to expect when the SHTF, and he's also online. His writings are worth reading. If you think you're ready guess again, none of us are. No one can be ready if it comes here and what he describes as a prelude could be happening right now. Will it push us over the edge? IDK. But I wouldn't want to be in a city if it does happen. That's why we go outta Dodge 40+ years ago.

We had a 4 day dress rehearsal 2 years ago, real SHTF stuff, where I lived with a long gun during that time and I learned alot and made some changes and I thought I was ready. My point is that if/when it happens no one is ready.

Now I need to go clean and lube my PCC SBR for competition this weekend.
I appreciate the reply...
I might try some steel case since ammo prices have almost doubled recently. Well I'm sure you would laugh but we are only allowed 10 round magazines here and I immediately bought 6 extra so 70 rounds ....not a ton but a whole lot better than nothing and a speed loader and spare box of 50 in my daypack. I'll get more magazines and If I move out of state larger capacity of course.. might buy a second Sub 2k also. I really like the idea of trying a few of the PCC competitions just to learn to do everything at speed...and of course it looks like a bunch of fun too...
I read something funny on the local Nextdoor website yesterday...and keep in mind I probably live in one of the more anti-gun neighborhoods in the country. "There are three kinds of people in the neighborhood after Sunday's riots....1) Gun owners...2) People who wish they were gun owners...3) People who were anti-gun and are now hoping their neighbors are gun owners....
I'm curious if you or Blackkat own other Kel Tec products??
 

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I have an RDB and a CP33. As soon as the LGS gets some KS7s in stock there might be one of those in my future.

My wife thinks I'm buying lots of guns, but the fact is that as we age we lose muscle mass and I'm there now. So what I'm doing is selling more guns than I buy and those sold guns are ones with barrel mass "wayyy out there" that are harder for me to swing and replacing some of them with bullpups or SBRs. They all must have optics too... old eyes. Aging sux, but thanks to technology I'm going to keep on shooting. I did give it up for a time then decided that even if I had to shoot a less than competitive gun in Open division I was going to shoot. Then USPSA started Carry Optics, then PCC, and I haven't looked back.

The problem with folks who don't have firearms but are counting on you is that if you defend them alone you will probably also get to defend yourself in court on your own as well. I have decided that my CCW only gets used to protect me and mine until the law changes to give us protection same as it protects cops (somewhat). Everyone in state has the same option to carry that I have since I live in a Constitutional Carry state. I'm not going to jeopardize everything I've worked for to save someone who doesn't think enough of their own hide to protect it on their own. Once the SHTF yes, everyone wants protection. There is no friend like a friend in need. The problem is that they really aren't friends before and won't be after. They're just using someone.

I highly recommend competition. It's stressful at first, then you realize that the people on your squad watching just want you to do the best you can. Any pressure felt after that is on the shooter. It's a great excuse to spend a day shooting with some of the best people on the planet. Too, it'll get you sharp and keep you that way, or hone the edge to a finer sharpness. I know of no one who starts comp' shooting because they are GODs gift to shooting, but they shoot to get better. And you will get better. Even at my age, fighting so many things, I'm getting better. I might not be able to run so good anymore, that means I need to shoot straighter and faster. The young can run better, but as far as points I keep up. Where they get lower scores I enjoy hearing "2 alpha, 2 alpha, etc'". I like to hear them say, "This is boring". That's action pistol with PCC. There's also Steel Challenge and that's plinking for adults. Now that is pure enjoyment. As fast as you can. shoot each steel target. Do it 5 times, throw out the worst score and keep the other 4. Easy right? :D

For an old fart I did pretty good this past Sunday in Steel Challenge. I came in 4th overall and top in my RFRO (rimfire rifle open) division with 87% of the points. Not bad for an old fart.
 

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Regarding the magazine issue and CA... It's not against the law to possess them from what I understand. But companies won't ship them to you.

If you know anyone in a free state, this works since CA law doesn't extend beyond it's borders. You buy the magazines and have them shipped to someone in the free state. You pay them to slap a shipping label on it for you. You enjoy your magazines when they arrive. It costs the 2nd shipper nothing, you pay shipping twice, but at least you have your mags.

Or you can take a trip to AZ and they'll gladly sell you all the mags you want, no questions asked.

I see CA as saying, "We don't want the business, take it elsewhere.". Only too happy to oblige. Eff CA.

Now I need to go. Things to do.
 

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Hi folks...
I have only posted here once before. I am a lifelong resident of Santa Monica California (trying to leave) and you folks may have seen on TV that our city descended into chaos on Sunday. I had purchased a Kel Tec Sub 2000 a few months back and had only taken it to the range once where it preformed flawlessly as I put about 150 rounds through it. I just wanted to say how happy I was that I had such a versatile weapon available to me. We had Antifa at the top of our street and even in our alley and had things gone a little more sideways I think the Sub 2000 would be the perfect tool to protect life and property in such a situation. Thank you Kel Tec.....
Fellow KelTec Santa Monica resident over here. Good to know there are fellow KTOGers in the neighborhood. I witnessed some of the chaos downtown first hand but bailed once the loud bangs started going off, ended up being fireworks luckily. The chaos has calmed down for now but we will see what happens in the coming weeks.
 

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I have an RDB and a CP33. As soon as the LGS gets some KS7s in stock there might be one of those in my future.

My wife thinks I'm buying lots of guns, but the fact is that as we age we lose muscle mass and I'm there now. So what I'm doing is selling more guns than I buy and those sold guns are ones with barrel mass "wayyy out there" that are harder for me to swing and replacing some of them with bullpups or SBRs. They all must have optics too... old eyes. Aging sux, but thanks to technology I'm going to keep on shooting. I did give it up for a time then decided that even if I had to shoot a less than competitive gun in Open division I was going to shoot. Then USPSA started Carry Optics, then PCC, and I haven't looked back.

The problem with folks who don't have firearms but are counting on you is that if you defend them alone you will probably also get to defend yourself in court on your own as well. I have decided that my CCW only gets used to protect me and mine until the law changes to give us protection same as it protects cops (somewhat). Everyone in state has the same option to carry that I have since I live in a Constitutional Carry state. I'm not going to jeopardize everything I've worked for to save someone who doesn't think enough of their own hide to protect it on their own. Once the SHTF yes, everyone wants protection. There is no friend like a friend in need. The problem is that they really aren't friends before and won't be after. They're just using someone.

I highly recommend competition. It's stressful at first, then you realize that the people on your squad watching just want you to do the best you can. Any pressure felt after that is on the shooter. It's a great excuse to spend a day shooting with some of the best people on the planet. Too, it'll get you sharp and keep you that way, or hone the edge to a finer sharpness. I know of no one who starts comp' shooting because they are GODs gift to shooting, but they shoot to get better. And you will get better. Even at my age, fighting so many things, I'm getting better. I might not be able to run so good anymore, that means I need to shoot straighter and faster. The young can run better, but as far as points I keep up. Where they get lower scores I enjoy hearing "2 alpha, 2 alpha, etc'". I like to hear them say, "This is boring". That's action pistol with PCC. There's also Steel Challenge and that's plinking for adults. Now that is pure enjoyment. As fast as you can. shoot each steel target. Do it 5 times, throw out the worst score and keep the other 4. Easy right? :D

For an old fart I did pretty good this past Sunday in Steel Challenge. I came in 4th overall and top in my RFRO (rimfire rifle open) division with 87% of the points. Not bad for an old fart.
BJK...Thank you...I read and appreciate all the points you made... I've been out supporting a couple of our local hostelries by purchasing beverages so apologies if I say anything stupid....
I'm 60 and trying to hang on to my muscle mass but the gyms being closed has throw a wrench in that. My eyes are not what they used to be also so I think I'm going to have to start looking at optics. Bullpups make sense to me as anything I would be involved in here would be close range...way less than a city block. You are quite the Kel Tec enthusiast but if I was going to get a Kel Tec shotgun when I move out of state I think I would have to go whole hog and get a KSG25..I mean go big or...well go bigger??? The PMR 30 and the P17 interest me but if you believe the internets these have had some reliability issues?? You are right about competitions...I'm going to have to look at that and trust me I'm too old to worry about how I do...lol.. Where I live there will always be someone bigger stronger faster smarter and a better shot... Learning to do the best you can is all that matters...
Regarding magazines I have to do more homework because I keep hearing both sides of the issue.. Cheers...
 

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Fellow KelTec Santa Monica resident over here. Good to know there are fellow KTOGers in the neighborhood. I witnessed some of the chaos downtown first hand but bailed once the loud bangs started going off, ended up being fireworks luckily. The chaos has calmed down for now but we will see what happens in the coming weeks.
Oh My Goodness...that's a surprise. Well you are braver than me if you went downtown on Sunday. I was manning the fort...lol.. Another "protest" up Montana Ave today but I was watching and it looked like almost all kids and not any Antifa that I could see... Still sirens disturbed my afternoon.
What Kel Tec do you have? Where do you go shooting? What part of the city are you in??
 

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That's the pits and it makes my blood boil! People died to preserve this country and these anarchists are trying to destroy that to build something that has never worked in any country that has ever tried it. Now there's talk of disbanding the police. I almost hope they're successful. Almost. What will they be replaced with? Brownshirts? Try that crap in a free state and see what happens!

Contrast that with what happened in Idaho when the (ahem) "protesters" tried to show up there.
http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...locals-made-sure-that-there-would-be-no-riots

The difference is obvious. One armed populace and one that has been disarmed.

Never, never, never give up your guns! The police will not and cannot protect you.

Decades ago I was a LEO. It didn't take me long to figure the following out. Just count up the cops on the police force vs the population. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the system works because most folks are law abiding. When that balance is disturbed the system simply can't handle it; as we see today by these orchestrated war zones. Two solutions that I can see... One is a standing force that can respond within a very short time. I find that repugnant since any force of that sort can be used by evil people against the populace. The second is what the folks in Idaho did, basically on their own they formed a militia, and stood against evil. That's the way this country was designed to be. Politicians who do or claim otherwise don't have your best interests at heart and the question should be raised, "What motives do they have for disarming their masters, the people?". Don't believe their flowery lies. In the USA WE ARE the government. That's the way things were designed to be here. We are governed by our consent and not ruled.

Want to see why politicians want a disarmed population? Just look around at what is happening. That is what evil looks like. It doesn't come in with horns and breathing fire. It comes in with flowery words and promises spouted by normal looking people.

The regressives (To call them progressives is incorrect) want a system that has never worked anywhere and has only led to slavery. We progressed beyond that and now they want to regress us back to a system that we rejected 300+ years ago.

Rant mode off.
 

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This'll make you feel all warm and fuzzy Harvey. Coming to Santa Monica soon?

But when it doesn't work, have no fear, they'll have leftist (nazi) brownshirts that will step right in and restore "order". The left has been wanting to take total control for years now.

https://www.libertybell.com/la-mayo...g-look-where-hes-going-to-revinest-the-money/
Los Angeles "beloved" mayor Eric "Yoga Pants" Garcetti. The LA police chief said this earlier today....
"Eric has apparently lost his damn mind," adding "we are deeply worried about his capacity to lead our city."
 
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