Has anyone else considered a way to get a repeatable sight picture on the Sub2k. Since I only use the factory iron sights, I want to ensure that my zero is repeatable. With an AR, I learned to place my nose on the charging handle so my sight picture was always the same. For the Sub2k, I have not found a place or way to get a repeatable sight picture. Has anyone else considered this and figured out a way to get repeatable sight picture?
Repeatable Sight Picture?
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I am cornfused here 
I thought you just looked thru the hole and put the front sight on the target and let fly?
Your eye automatically Centers the Front Sight in the Hole and all you need to concern yourself with is the placement of the Front Sight on the Target .
The Target and the Rear Sight will be out of focus but the Front Sight should be in focus.
Hard Focus on the Front Sight!
I can see how gross changes in your cheek weld could change the focus of the Front Sight, when looking thru the aperture, but small changes aren't going to make much difference in focus, and will make no change in where the bullet will go. They will only affect how long it takes to acquire the target.
Once sighted in correctly the gun will shoot to the top of the Front Sight,,, Period..
I can assure you that if you look thru the Rear Sight and put the Front Sight on the target, the bullet will go there as long as the gun is sighted in in the first place.
The procedure for sighting the gun in has no more variables than adjusting the front sight until the bullet hits at the top of the sight. Head position doesn't change this because you have to look thru the hole and your eye automatically centers the Front Sight in the Hole..
The whole purpose of the development of the Aperture Rear Sight was to reduce the number of things you have to focus on when sighting the gun from 3 with Open Sights to 2 with Peep Sights. Then the Optical Sight reduced that to one.
However in practice the Front Sight is all you need to concentrate on. I know it sounds counter intuitive as virtually all of us learned to shoot with open sights by shifting focus between all three points. As you get older you won't be able to do this, but even in the Military now they are teaching to focus on the Front Sight and forget the rest.
Jeff Cooper was the main proponent of this and his teachings were responsible for others to build shooting schools around this very concept. One is actually called
"Front Sight." Goto www.frontsight.com for more info.
Randy
I thought you just looked thru the hole and put the front sight on the target and let fly?
Your eye automatically Centers the Front Sight in the Hole and all you need to concern yourself with is the placement of the Front Sight on the Target .
The Target and the Rear Sight will be out of focus but the Front Sight should be in focus.
Hard Focus on the Front Sight!
I can see how gross changes in your cheek weld could change the focus of the Front Sight, when looking thru the aperture, but small changes aren't going to make much difference in focus, and will make no change in where the bullet will go. They will only affect how long it takes to acquire the target.
Once sighted in correctly the gun will shoot to the top of the Front Sight,,, Period..
I can assure you that if you look thru the Rear Sight and put the Front Sight on the target, the bullet will go there as long as the gun is sighted in in the first place.
The procedure for sighting the gun in has no more variables than adjusting the front sight until the bullet hits at the top of the sight. Head position doesn't change this because you have to look thru the hole and your eye automatically centers the Front Sight in the Hole..
The whole purpose of the development of the Aperture Rear Sight was to reduce the number of things you have to focus on when sighting the gun from 3 with Open Sights to 2 with Peep Sights. Then the Optical Sight reduced that to one.
However in practice the Front Sight is all you need to concentrate on. I know it sounds counter intuitive as virtually all of us learned to shoot with open sights by shifting focus between all three points. As you get older you won't be able to do this, but even in the Military now they are teaching to focus on the Front Sight and forget the rest.
Jeff Cooper was the main proponent of this and his teachings were responsible for others to build shooting schools around this very concept. One is actually called
"Front Sight." Goto www.frontsight.com for more info.
Randy
Yes, I am looking for a repeatable sight picture so that my zero doesn't change. I am still focusing on the front sight, but I am trying to produce a consistent sight picture. The sight picture will change if my head placement moves forward or back down the stock. I am surprised that there hasn't been any discussion around this before. I guess it is because most people know use scopes and red dots so this isn't relevant unless using the iron sights.
Ok, I'm a troglodyte and I don't plan on updating to any "20th century looking" sighting devices.
Here is my repeatable sight method: I slide my cheek up to the castle nut and I can recognize that my eye is in the right place by feel. This method provides minute of "buggy whip" accuracy for me.
I am one of the few that liked the old sight on the gen. one. I could get the sight picture a little faster since the above hold allowed me to see the circular guard around the front sight and I knew I was lined up instantly with "centered circle" sight picture. My gen one had a manufacturing flaw that was unrepairable according to Kel-Tec and they returned a gen. two with the latest front sight. It is my first experience with an AR style sight and my feeling is that it is a step down from the original gen. one sight - in terms of speed of sight picture acquisition. But the new sight looks less 20th century than the old one so I can live with it.
Here is my repeatable sight method: I slide my cheek up to the castle nut and I can recognize that my eye is in the right place by feel. This method provides minute of "buggy whip" accuracy for me.
I am one of the few that liked the old sight on the gen. one. I could get the sight picture a little faster since the above hold allowed me to see the circular guard around the front sight and I knew I was lined up instantly with "centered circle" sight picture. My gen one had a manufacturing flaw that was unrepairable according to Kel-Tec and they returned a gen. two with the latest front sight. It is my first experience with an AR style sight and my feeling is that it is a step down from the original gen. one sight - in terms of speed of sight picture acquisition. But the new sight looks less 20th century than the old one so I can live with it.
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Repeatable sight picture with a peep sight is just finding where the front sight post is centered within the rear peep.
Optionally, (when the front sight has a hood) you can center the hood, then adjust the front post to the point of impact. -that's how I use mine (see photo)
It sounds like you are using it like a shotgun, where your cheekweld is your rear sight (the rear peep still there, but you don't focus on trying to center the front sight within it). A repeatable cheekweld is good for the quickndirty, but accuracy is only as good as your cheekweld repeatability.
POI shift happens when you use the shotgun method, or when lenses are involved (optics).
Unfortunately, there is nothing on the rifle near to my cheekweld that helps me get there faster. Muscle memory gets me close, then I center the hood.
![Black Shadow Photography Circle]()
Optionally, (when the front sight has a hood) you can center the hood, then adjust the front post to the point of impact. -that's how I use mine (see photo)
It sounds like you are using it like a shotgun, where your cheekweld is your rear sight (the rear peep still there, but you don't focus on trying to center the front sight within it). A repeatable cheekweld is good for the quickndirty, but accuracy is only as good as your cheekweld repeatability.
POI shift happens when you use the shotgun method, or when lenses are involved (optics).
Unfortunately, there is nothing on the rifle near to my cheekweld that helps me get there faster. Muscle memory gets me close, then I center the hood.
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