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Meanwhile, Kel-Tec is a privately held company that is responsibly managed, using revenue from sales to fund expansion rather than relying on credit, and Kel-Tec is doing quite well. Long live Kel-Tec.
 

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Meanwhile, Kel-Tec is a privately held company that is responsibly managed, using revenue from sales to fund expansion rather than relying on credit, and Kel-Tec is doing quite well. Long live Kel-Tec.
That is the way America used to work. Now it's HOW CAN I GRAB MORE MONEY AND THEN DUMP ON EVERYBODY ELSE.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Steve
 
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This is all just about the investors that are grabbing their ankles about now View attachment 35392 .
They all drank the Kool-Aid and gambled on a different election outcome.
It's probably going to sting a little at first, but isn't anything that we all haven't experienced.
I think this runs deeper than the so-called "Trump Slump." The problems with Remington started before the election run-up. I believe that the issues stem from poor decision making at the top coupled with mismanagement and terrible customer interaction. For one dramatic example, the whole issue with the failure of the initial launch and then "soft recall" of the R51 was completely avoidable. Plenty of other companies have had Gen 1 product failures and pulled it out. But the way Remington's brass managed the issue, from an optics perspective, totally pooched it. Deny and obfuscate that some percentage of the guns had issues. Do a "soft recall" without actually admitting there might be a systemic problem. Then don't say anything for, literally, years, while customers stew and get more and more angry. Just some simple contrition and good communication with the customers could have dramatically reduced this, but instead they turned thousands (apparently) of former Big Green customers into never again-ers.

And then there have been other issues, such as their late adoption of the AR platform, their too-narrow focus on hunting, and their laughably late entrance in the self defense handgun market space.

Hopefully this changes.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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...the whole issue with the failure of the initial launch and then "soft recall" of the R51 was completely avoidable. Plenty of other companies have had Gen 1 product failures and pulled it out. But the way Remington's brass managed the issue, from an optics perspective, totally pooched it. Deny and obfuscate that some percentage of the guns had issues. Do a "soft recall" without actually admitting there might be a systemic problem. Then don't say anything for, literally, years, while customers stew and get more and more angry.
I was interested in buying a Remington 597 rifle in 17 HMR sometime around 2009 and fortunately read the online reviews. There were significant problems with case necks splitting and magazines being blown out of the mag well. The problem persisted long enough that the ammunition manufacturer, Hornady, was forced to release a carefully worded public statement to let people know that there is nothing wrong with their ammo and implying that they had warned Remington engineers that the 17 HMR was not suitable for use in a blow back operated firearm and had warned them that these problems would happen. Obviously, it's possible to shoot 17 HMR in a properly designed semi-auto, but you can't simply rebarrel a 22 LR blow back operated firearm and call it good. It seemed that Remington didn't test the 17 HMR and just rushed it to market. Worse, they denied there was a problem for years and only the roar of complaints on the internet forced them to address the problem. By then, they had a lot of 17 HMR rifles in the field and the problem that wouldn't go away as they hoped was by then a very large and expensive problem. They should have done the engineering they didn't do up front and create a working 17 HMR (maybe a delayed blow back system) and upgraded the existing rifles. They didn't. Instead, they issued some weasel statement that the ammunition manufacturer had informed them that the ammunition wasn't suitable for a semi-automatic firearm so they were recalling the Remington rebranded Hornady ammunition and because there was no ammo, they would offer a buy back program for the rifle. They never admitted fault and acted as if they were doing their customers a huge favor to give them a $250 voucher on the purchase of a different 597 rifle, when their customers specifically bought the 17 HMR version and not another .22 LR, and their customers had paid around $350 for the 17 HMR 597, and would pay about the same for the .22 LR 597 they didn't want.

Basically, Remington sold a defective and dangerous product and then offered a partial refund, but only if the customer spent even more of their money to buy another Remington product they didn't want.

When I realized how Remington handled the 17 HMR 597 fiasco, I was very glad I hadn't bought one and I was very dissuaded from buying any Remington products until I saw a change in how they treated their customers. I keep watching but I see nothing but more of the same - technical problems that shouldn't have happened if Remington did real engineering and development, Remington ignores the problems until their customers are hopping mad, then some "too little too late" half measure with a side of CYA and still not accepting any responsibility and leaving the customer on the hook for their mistakes. Meh.

This is a recipe for destroying a large and once great company.

So, yeah, I'd say Remington's problems started before the Trump induced downturn in the firearms market.

But hey! I bought $51 worth of RemOil last week. I'm trying to support Remington when they make a good product. I'm not a hater. :)
 

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Dang! I've never seen it in a 5 gallon bucket.
Six pack of 10 ounce aerosol cans, at Amazon. About the same price as WalMart, but I don't need to deal with WalMart. I've actually bought groceries at Amazon. I'm turning into a shut-in. I'm a hoplophiliac agoraphobic.
 

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Six pack of 10 ounce aerosol cans, at Amazon. About the same price as WalMart, but I don't need to deal with WalMart. I've actually bought groceries at Amazon. I'm turning into a shut-in. I'm a hoplophiliac agoraphobic.
I wont go near Walmart either. If Amazon ain't got it, you don't really need it. And +1 for avoiding the general public whever possible. I get more human interaction than I need at work every day.

TxCajun, who doesn't answer the phone or the door. :)
 
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But hey! I bought $51 worth of RemOil last week. I'm trying to support Remington when they make a good product. I'm not a hater. :)
RemOil is probably my least favorite of gun specific oils. Not that I have a problem with it in general, I think that pretty much all gun specific oils are over-priced and over-hyped for being basically just light weight oil with (hopefully) some anti-oxidant additives. For gun specific, I prefer BreakFree CLP and Ballistol. Past that, I like 3-in-One and light weight synthetic motor oil. I have a preference for 5w20 full synthetic (I've been using Castrol Magnatec) and often use for cleaning a modern reformulation of "Dr. Hudson's nitro solvent."

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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First gun I ever bought was an 870, probably 10 years ago. Had I known then what I do now about Remington I wouldn't have even considered it. The well documented issues with the 700 trigger that they ignored for years is enough of a turn off for me. The story about the 597 is the first time I've heard it butI don't doubt it's truth.

The 870 is a fine shotgun and I'm not getting rid of it but Remington doesn't even get any of my attention anymore. Especially with so many other reputable manufacturers.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
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Most amusing article I have read in a long time!
It's like someone went out to the graveyard and dug up all of the 'brain-dead' gun-control ideas of the past and reanimated them
zombie.gif

NY Times said:
"A reimagined Remington with a new management and mandate could develop smart-gun technology. It could back fingerprint technology meant to prevent anyone who is not the gun’s owner from shooting it, a measure that could greatly reduce suicides and the potential for guns to be stolen. It could add an identity stamp to ammunition fired from any of its guns. It could also establish and standardize responsible sales policies for retailers to sell its firearms."
Bearing Arms pointed out the obvious flaw:
"Oh, that’s simple. NO ONE WOULD BUY THE BLASTED THINGS!"

Like there's not enough of that to go around already:rolleyes:.
 

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Well, it's official. Remington is dead:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/25/gun-maker-remington-files-for-bankruptcy.html
(except of course, that they will continue to make guns and it will be business as usual except without a lot of debt that got written off:)).

Only in America can you buy a bunch of stuff with other people's money, scream "11", get to keep it all and not pay for it View attachment 35379 .
Aaaand now they're back:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/05/17/remington-emerges-bankruptcy
Boy, that was quick!
 

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Discussion Starter #74
So as I read it, Cerberus Capital Management gave up ownership, and now the creditors own the stock. The major creditors are pension plans. A completely new board of directors is installed. And the bankruptcy and reorganization do not prevent lawsuits, such as for the Sandy Hook school shooting in 2012, to continue.

It will be interesting to see if various brands are sold off. Cerberus was unable, since 2012, to divest.
 
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Discussion Starter #75

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Hard to understand with high sales they fail
It can take a fair amount of time for gun-counter sales to trickle back up to the manufacturer and, even then, they don't benefit from increased retail prices.

As the article hints, Rem is probably fighting off the economic & labor effects of COVID shutdowns like everyone else. Can they get enough parts and materials from other plants which are shut down or at lower production? Can they get enough workers in to man the machines? I heard of one plant that had to move the machines and lines around for distancing requirements. That's difficult and expensive.

On top of that, Rem was suffering from lower sales than competitors, largely driven by the 700 trigger debacle and the after-effects of a rabid, eat-your-own, invent-problems-if-they-don't-exist, "internet reviewers" of the R51 Gen 2, who just couldn't imagine that if the Gen 1 had that many problems the Gen 2 wouldn't also.

I'm not surprised the Navajo deal fell through. Something about it never quite rang true.

I suspect that they'll Chap 11 and hope that this current drivers of the gun buying panic will hang on long enough for them to recover.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Its an iconic name that has some value no matter what, so if they bankrupt someone will buy the name up and make a few shotguns and hunting rifles or something that can turn a profit just based off the brand name. Several of the brands we 'know' already been down that road.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Here's how the Remington bankruptcy ended, with various parts auctioned off:
  • Vista Outdoor Inc. for its Lonoke ammunitions business and certain IP assets
  • Roundhill Group LLC for its non-Marlin firearms business
  • Sierra Bullets LLC for its Barnes ammunitions business
  • Sturm, Ruger, & Co. for its Marlin firearms business
  • JJE Capital Holdings LLC for DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC and Parker brands
  • Franklin Armory Holdings Inc. for Bushmaster brand and some related assets
  • Sportsman’s Warehouse Inc. for Tapco brands
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/remington-auctioned-off-seven-bidders-015154516.html
 

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I had no idea Remington owned Marlin & H&R. as well as all that other stuff. As you can tell I live under a rock.
 

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With Ruger owning Marlin now, I wonder if that will improve their quality control? ... or make it worse? (Being that Ruger has been all about low-budget firearms as of late, it could go either way.) :confused:
 
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