[Halicron]

Hey folks, proud new owner of a KSG. Had some serious issues in the first 300 rounds with reliability-- beyond even proper use, I had problems with consistent ejection, the magazines would seize and prevent loading, and I'd get shells stuck above the loading gate that wouldn't eject. At one point, a bad ejection jammed the elevator firmly against the sidewall.

So after a few hundred bucks in parts and some hours with a file and a Dremel, I think I've got it running at about 95%. Even with high-brass snapcaps I can run both magazines empty without trouble.

A few things I did:

Once you remove the trigger assembly, you can see the actuator bar that pushed down the arms of the Cartridge Catch Outer (#331) on the rearward stroke, and moves the Cartridge Stop Actuator (#334) going forward. The Mag Stop Actuator (#228) moves across the Cartridge Catches, depressing them. What I did is with a small file, very gently beveled the working edge of the Actuator where it meets the CCO. This reduces friction at the rearmost point of the forend operation, allowing the catches to drop correctly with significantly less force required.

I used some alcohol and compressed air to clean out the hinge point for the CCO, and then once the alcohol dried, I lubricated it very thoroughly with RemOil and let it sit. This seems to have largely cured my issues with the CCO articulating correctly. It's equally important here to emphasize that you need to run the forend completely -forward-, not just back, because this pulls the Actuator arm forward and allows the Cartridge Stop Inner (#338) to drop out of the way and let the next rounds start to feed. The easiest way to explain this is just for you to take off your grip housing and watch what's going on near the magazines as you cycle the forend back and forth. It starts to make much more sense how this runs once you do.

I also chamfered the entrance to the magazine wells with an 80 grit flappy paddle and a 300 grit polishing media nub. You'll need a Fordham tool or an extended arm for your Dremel, as there's not a lot of good angles to work from. This softened a lot of hard edges and sharp points. I also polished the top of the Bolt Lock, #174. During loading, shells slide along the angled top of it and I lightly sanded then polished it in order to get a smooth, shiny, low-friction surface. Finally, I installed the Tandemkross improved magazine followers. The reduction in drag during loading is significant, and as a plus, makes switching off an empty magazine almost effortless. Highly recommend those. Now I'm having a much easier time loading even high-brass full-sized training shells.

For ergonomics, I added in the extended lower picatinny rail, a shell deflector, a kydex cheek rest, and a Magpul VFG.

I'll add in some pics if folks would find another visual reference helpful.

 

[javahawk]

Yes, would love detailed photos!

 

[Halicron]

Sorry, a few of these are out of order. But you can see where I did my work. The magazine wells are trickier to pick up on, but I smoothed out any sharp edges I could feel with my thumb. On top of the bolt, the shinier points are the top of the mechanism where the shotgun shells slide over. I buffed the ramps on the cartridge stops, and you can see in the last two pictures the actuator bar, and the cartridge stops.

 

[Landroverman]

Thanks for all of the work that you put into a great post. I am a new KSG owner as well and, while very impressed with the gun's unique design and its potential, I am very disappointed at the feed reliability issue. Like other Kel-tec defects (RFB jamming problems), I suspect that the flaws can be rectified by trial and error and a lot of patience. I will try your suggested solutions and let you know what happens.

 

[Halicron]

I do think a majority of the issue stems from tight tolerances in the way the catches are manipulated, and it explains why for some people their KSG runs like a sewing machine, and why for others, it's very hit-and-miss. I think they could have been engineered with the tolerances a bit more forgiving, and should have been spec'd in factory for quality and feeding concerns. Thoroughly (and I mean THOROUGHLY) lubricating the KSG at the point around the hinges of the steel cartridge catches really does go a long way towards improving their operation.

 

[ral357]

I do think a majority of the issue stems from tight tolerances in the way the catches are manipulated, and it explains why for some people their KSG runs like a sewing machine, and why for others, it's very hit-and-miss. I think they could have been engineered with the tolerances a bit more forgiving, and should have been spec'd in factory for quality and feeding concerns. Thoroughly (and I mean THOROUGHLY) lubricating the KSG at the point around the hinges of the steel cartridge catches really does go a long way towards improving their operation.

Just how wet are you running it? I've never shot a pump gun that needs to be run wet.

 

[leavnon3rd]

shame to hear you had trouble from the start. Bought mine feb 16 and have put 120 rounds init and its been flawless

might be someone whos doing final assy at keltec who isnt going the extra mile to finish it.

 

[Halicron]

Not running it soaking wet; it's not an SVI. But lubricating it very thoroughly helps, particularly near the hinge point.

 

[ral357]

shame to hear you had trouble from the start. Bought mine feb 16 and have put 120 rounds init and its been flawless

might be someone whos doing final assy at keltec who isnt going the extra mile to finish it.

Thanks, Kel Tec differently gets high scores for innovation. Seems they have some QC issues though, flawless performance in 90 percent of the guns is NOT acceptable in a weapon used for self-defense ........... The KSG is a very neat gun and really is the ideal squad car shotgun if only......
They have had teething issues with other guns too, PMR 30........If they would get the QC issues ironed out they might step up to the next level in the gun world

 

[Codemonkey3]

Did you have an issue where when you rack it back and go to rack it forward the shells got 'caught' and hung up on the chamber until you pulled back on the slide and than rack it again? If so which if your fixes seemed to help?

 

[Halicron]

No, mine always chambers consistently. My biggest issues was with the rounds ejecting from the magazine. I'd hazard a guess that your problem is your elevator arms being loose or out of spec.

 

[Halicron]

Wait, sorry- to clarify, are you having a problem with -chambering- or -extracting-?

 

[WRemines]

I am a new owner of the shotgun that I have been dieing to get my hands on. I have (as of yet) not been able to get to the range yet but, racking shells through the process, I have to double pump, yes, double pump to get each shell through the system. Has anyone ever run into this issue or do I need to find a gunsmith?

 

[Halicron]

Make sure you're using snap caps! Cycling live ammo is where all those 'never thought it would happen to me' ND horror stories start.

I'm fairly sure your problem is you aren't running the forend hard enough back and forward. There are two sets of catches inside the tubes, and forward pushes the front set down, and backwards articulates the silver one. I needed about 500 dry cycles of the KSG and some thorough lubricant to get it cooperating.

 

[WRemines]

Thanks for the reply. I was just sweating out of the Idea of a dysfunctional gun. Thanks, snap caps finally bought.

 

[Halicron]

Take down your KSG as per the manual and examine the long transfer bar that's beneath the magazine tubes. You can see how there's a butterfly-shaped end forward, and then the two silver angled pieces towards the frame side. When you bring the forend back, it pushes down the two silver angled pieces. That's the 'release' that lets the round actually out of the magazine. Going that last 1/4" back also articulates the elevator arms and resets the inner magazine catch.

When you run the forend forward, take a look inside the magazine tubes. You'll see a pair of raised catches hidden inside the magazine. Those are the 'inner' cartridge stops, and they prep the rounds so they don't all come flying out at the same time when you articulate the silver cartridge stops.

Make sense?

 

[WRemines]

Thank you guys for your help. I won't have time to "tinker" with it till the end of the week but with the information you have given me, I'm much more confident.

 

[Lonewolf1369]

Hi HALICRON. Good advice! I just got my KSG and spent some "intimate" time both tearing it apart and putting it back together (field strip familiarization training) and going through all the comments here on the forum site about jamming, double feed, failure to release from the magazine, etc. What I found was that indeed when racking the weapon, the last 1/4" of travel is critical as that is where the slide hits the outer cartridge catch, releasing the shell from the magazine so it can feed and load into the chamber on the forward stroke. At the end of the forward stroke, the last forward 1/4" is again critical as it allows the inner cartridge catch to move just enough to release the next shell in line from the magazine and then the outer cartridge catch "catches" it. The shell is then ready for the next "rack of the slide" to the rear to release that next shell from the magazine for feeding/loading. I didn't do a full "bubba" job on my KSG but did use 1500 and 2000 grit "wet/dry" sandpaper to polish the contact areas where the mag stop actuator (part 228) contacts and slides up the end of the outer cartridge catches, as well as the outer cartridge catches themselves. I also polished the end of the cartridge stop actuator (part 331) where it pushes on the inner cartridge catch to depress it in that final 1/4" of rearward travel. This alone helped immensely with the entire functioning of releasing shells from the magazine, loading, chambering and extracting, etc. because the slide could move so much easier and without sticking. Now I can actually rack the KSG as slowly as I want and when I hit the last 1/4" of rearward and last 1/4" of forward travel, I can hear the audible "clicks" when the inner and outer catches operate. As long as I do a "full" travel at any speed; everything works as it should. The reason I did the "polishing" in the first place was that, "out of the box", the cartridge stop actuator would actually "stick" when racking the slide back so when the slide was pushed forward, it felt like it was as far forward as it could go; but it was actually stuck 1/4" from completing the stroke and hence unlocking the inner cartridge catches. Result? No shell would come out of the magazine on the next cycling. The polishing described above cured all of my "functional" problems. I did NOT have to trim the fore end where it touches and lifts up the slide release as described in the "bubba" fix. Hope this makes sense?

I suppose one could just rack the slide a gazillion times back and forth to get enough wear on these contact points to smooth it out, but I prefer polishing.

 

[850sub]

When I first got my KSG, I remember how stiff/tight it felt. I did rack the slide repeatedly, and it definitely loosened up.

 

[Halicron]

I think the biggest issue with the KSG is that it just needs a hell of a break-in period. We're so used to Glocks being ready to rock out of the tupperware that many of us see breaking a gun in as 'unacceptable' engineering.

So I'd recommend before anyone does ANYTHING with a file or sandpaper, do a thorough break in. Clean it and lubricate the hell out of it as I described above. Run 50 rounds through it at the range. Take it home, clean it, dry fire it, and actuate the slide with snapcaps about 500 more times. Disassemble, lubricate, reassemble, and you SHOULD be good to go.