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If it's set up with a tappet that drives the op rod I don't see how it would be much different. I just don't know how they're designed and there is no standard design that I ever heard of. If it's just an open port It might make a difference. I also don't think I'd want to fire that rifle.

I have 2 gas rifles with op rods, neither are ARs, and they both have tappets (pistons). One is long stroke and the other short stroke. If there's any difference in the gas coming out of the muzzle I can't detect it between them or a DI AR. I also don't have brakes or compensators on the end of any of them (I like my ears). But in the average bottleneck rifle cartridge there is plenty of gas pressure to work with. It's much easier to figure with a straight wall cartridge so I'll use that and what I'm familiar with. In a 9mm the peak pressure is reached in just a few inches of bullet travel down the barrel. I'll use 5" which is probably generous, it's probably more like 2-3". The chamber adds a bit to that but we'll ignore it. Boyles Law states that when we double the volume we halve the pressure, so at 5" the pressure could be as much as 35000psi. At 10" it would be 17,500, and at 20" it would be 8750psi. A shotgun would be similar except the peak pressure is even lower. A bottleneck cartridge has a much higher volume to begin with due to it's design, the powder generally burns slower so peak pressure (I'm using 5.56 NATO) would be near 10". Now it gets difficult. Doubling the barrel length here doesn't double the volume due to the cartridge volume we started with. Bottleneck cartridges are designed for big volumes to hold lots of powder. So the peak pressure of 65000psi @ 10" when increasing to 20" is more than we would expect based on the 9mm example or what's seen in a shotgun. It might be 40000psi or higher I just don't know how to figure the volume. But you get the idea. My point is that there's plenty of gas pressure to push on a tiny piston whether it's DI or using an op rod. Those examples are close enough for illustration, but in the real world the powder is still burning and working to keep pressure up while the projectile is moving down the bore increasing the volume of the "chamber" and working to lower the pressure.

In an AR there is jetting because of the gas pressure, but a shotgun just doesn't have the pressure required. So instead we get designs like the Howitzer I think it's called that does it's best to strip the gas from the ejecta and get it to move to the sides where the gasses cancel each other out.

Having written all of that, back to the 9mm... Despite the cartridge not having much pressure to work with I shoot a 9mm SBR (short barreled rifle) in competition. And due to the short 7" barrel the compensator I use does have an effect to reduce muzzle flip since all of the ports face upwards and redirect the still relatively high pressure gas. If I had a carbine with a 16" barrel I wouldn't bother with a compensator on the mousegun I shoot.
 

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Well stated BJK.
Shotguns operate at much lower pressures then center fire guns, especially rifles, so muzzle brakes on rifles are much more effective due to the gas jetting effect.

Due to the amount of gas tapped off, and the delay of venting in the gas system I think that it would take some serious pressure measurement gauges to measure any difference in the amount of gas vented through the muzzle brake versus how much is tapped out through the gas system.

One option for slings where you can't find what you want or the cost is too high, is to make your own.

The KS7 does not come with a sling like the KSG does and mounting is done with M-Loc mounts.
So, for my KS7 I bought about 4 feet of heavy black nylon 1 1/4 inch nylon and two plastic 1 1/4 inch slides from Strapworks.
I bought a set of 360 degree swivels and M-Log mounts from Amazon.
The mounts are Chinese made, but of good quality.
You can also find a large number of non-fully rotating sling swivels and M-Loc mounts on Amazon at decent prices.

Strapworks sell a number of types of webbing but I found the standard type nylon is thicker and stronger then even the military type.
They also sell a selection of specialty plastic and metal hardware to attach it.
https://www.strapworks.com/default.asp

What I buy. I also use it for some shoulder holster harnesses'......
https://www.strapworks.com/Mil_Spec_Nylon_Webbing_p/fnw114c.htm
Note that the military 1 1/4 inch webbing is NOT as thick and heavy as the standard webbing.

I use the 1 1/2 inch flat SCUBA wet suit heavy nylon to make belts for CCW holsters.
For a buckle I use a plastic strap adjuster.

Note that they sell HK type sling snap hooks.
 

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Guys, keep in mind when planning recoil reducing pads, the KT factory extended pad has a pretty wide surface area and may make an additional slip-on pad problematic. But if you can achieve it let us know, your fluffy pillow story!
 

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OK, after getting the snot kicked out of me I decided to make some changes.
1st- Extended butt pad by Kel Tec
2nd- Howitzer muzzle break by Hi - Tech Custom
3rd- Cheek pad by M-CARBO
4th- Limb saver slip on recoil pad
Time for the range.
Black Magic Mag slugs--- a nice Thump
3 in mag buckshot--slight thump
Bird shot--very slight shove
Mini's--- did it go off ??
All in all, BIG reduction with magnum loads of any kind. Bird shot and mini's = a lot of fun.
Now it doesn't matter what I shoot, no pain just big time fun.
If you are looking to reduce recoil in your KSG, I highly recommend the Howitzer muzzle break combined with at least the Limb saver recoil pad.
I carry my KSG for bear and dangerous game defense on the job here in Alaska loaded with Black Magic Slugs and Monolit 32 steel slugs. Now practicing with what I carry is a lot less painful, fallow up shots are faster and more accurate.
So no issues with bird shot and hitting inside the Hi Tech Howitzer? That is my concern, but would like to have this option for plinking on the farm and rodents.
 

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Today I added a few items to the KSG I picked up this week. The Kel-Tec Extended Butt Pad feels hard and the Pachmayr Decelerator Slip-On feels cushy. I think I'll prefer the Pachmayr on the range. Combined with the Kydex Cheek Rest it feels positively comfy.
I like the set up now, except I'll add a taclight.
Before, after...


 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
So no issues with bird shot and hitting inside the Hi Tech Howitzer? That is my concern, but would like to have this option for plinking on the farm and rodents.
I've shot all kinds of loads, about 4-500 bird shot and 200 slugs and buckshot, so far nothing has come out from the sides with the Howitzer brake, except for a lot of blast gas.
Looking at the brake I see no indication of any contact at all and looking at video, only blast gases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Today I added a few items to the KSG I picked up this week. The Kel-Tec Extended Butt Pad feels hard and the Pachmayr Decelerator Slip-On feels cushy. I think I'll prefer the Pachmayr on the range. Combined with the Kydex Cheek Rest it feels positively comfy.
I like the set up now, except I'll add a taclight.
Before, after...


Sweet
I think you will have a blast with it-pun intended.:likey:
 

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I have noticed that each ring on the Howitzer 70 is about 1/10th of an inch bigger than the previous, such that something would have to open up really fast to catch the edge. The only ammo I can think of that might be able to open up that fast might be really soft buckshot without a shot cup. Regular birdshot in a shot cup or slugs that stay the same diameter until they hit something, just cannot see it happening.
 

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The only ammo I can think of that might be able to open up that fast might be really soft buckshot without a shot cup. Regular birdshot in a shot cup or slugs that stay the same diameter until they hit something, just cannot see it happening.
Do they even manufacture any shot (bird or buck) without a cup these days? Serious question since I haven't seen any among the various ammo I've fed mine since everything litters the ground in front of me with shotcups.
 

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S&B 9 pellet 00 buckshot was exactly what I was thinking of when I posted the above., The pattern would have to be opening up faster than an inch per foot to even theoretically be able to touch the sides. I think an inch per yard is the common standard for un-choked shotguns.
 

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Some of the modern "flight control" types of buckshot beat the 1 inch per yard patterning.

Some of the Federal Flite-Control shoots very tight groups.
However, in an actual home defense gun, meaning an inside the house close range defense gun, I'd want the pattern to open as much as possible.

Even with special shells that have inserts to cause the shot to spread much faster, at typical home defense ranges you're probably not going to get all that big a pattern.
 

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I am loving this feedback. Big question - which muzzle brake is most effective on a KSG. Wish there was something definitive on line.
From the science of their engineering, testing and actual comparisons it appears that the V6 is the best so far. Weight is a large part (10oz) and 4" of Billet Steel. Their Billet Aluminum at just under 4oz is less effective, but still beats the Howitzer, mainly because the science in their design is more modern and doesn't throw gas & debris back in your face. The 4" is getting into a length consideration, but it all depends on the 'trade off' for the results. It is twice the price for the Howitzer, but almost twice as effective.
https://www.v6brake.com/home2.html
 

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From the science of their engineering, testing and actual comparisons it appears that the V6 is the best so far. Weight is a large part (10oz) and 4" of Billet Steel.
V6 Industries - Muzzle Brake, Compensator, Shotgun Muzzle Brake
Thanks. I've decided to not go with any muzzle brake. I don't want to add any more weight for now. I will put on a choke adapter to see how it patterns with different chokes. I have a case of Aguila mini shells for fun and plan to try some low recoil shells when I can get them - some day. I also have a vest and recoil pad for target shooting. For defense I'll suck up the 00 Buckshot recoil.
 

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Thanks. I've decided to not go with any muzzle brake. I don't want to add any more weight for now. I will put on a choke adapter to see how it patterns with different chokes. I have a case of Aguila mini shells for fun and plan to try some low recoil shells when I can get them - some day. I also have a vest and recoil pad for target shooting. For defense I'll suck up the 00 Buckshot recoil.
For home defense most encounters will be only in the 5 yard or less range so #4 Birdshot that close will do the job without worrying about going through the walls.
 

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I installed the extended buttpad from Keltech before I even fired my KSG, but I'm not sure that it's even really necessary. I've read through all the complaints about bruised shoulders, etc., from full-power shells, but in my experience it really comes down to technique. Y'all are getting bruises because you're allowing the shotgun to recoil before it impacts the meat of your shoulder.

I've taken several classes with Tim Chandler and he's demonstrated that recoil really isn't a big deal once you learn to really tuck the butt into your shoulder, regardless of brand of weapon. And I really mean pull it into your shoulder with some force, not just lightly pressing it against your shoulder, and leaning into your stance to put all your weight behind the shotgun. This prevents the recoil force from moving the shotgun to the rear before it encounters the muscles and bone of your shoulder, distributing the recoil impulse across your entire shoulder and body instead of your vulnerable shoulder muscle. Leaning forward in your stance also helps to absorb the recoil. Be advised that this does make you more vulnerable to loosing your balance if you're shooting from a more traditional upright stance. That happened to me during one rapid fire drill when I was more focused on shooting quickly than properly and nearly fell on my ass. Fortunately a quick movement of my forward foot to the rear allowed me to regain my balance before anything embarrassing or dangerous happened, but it was a lesson to me and everyone else as I became a learning point for Tim to share with everyone.

This likely means that you'll have to adjust your customary grip and stance, but I've fired 300-400 rounds in some of his classes with only a t shirt and not been bruised at all. The same was true of all the students with their Berettas, Mossbergs, Winchesters, etc.

Try this before investing any money in recoil mitigation gear; I'm sure that there are videos out there explaining proper stance and such out there to use as guides.
 

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For home defense most encounters will be only in the 5 yard or less range so #4 Birdshot that close will do the job without worrying about going through the walls.
#4 is better than birdshot, but not by much as it can be stopped by heavy clothing like winter coats as its penetration ability is far inferior to double ought. Take a home defense shotgun class where you can learn the true capabilities of the ammo types and practice getting all of your pellets onto the target where you don't have to worry about any over penetration. Pattern the self-defense ammo from your gun so you know how much it spreads at various ranges, the good stuff spreads far less than the so-called benchmark of one inch per yard. I myself have kept all of my pellets within a four-inch circle using 8-pellet Federal Flite-control at 7 yards with my KSG in a class. The equivalent Fiocchi ammo was almost as good, but you need to find out for yourself what works best for your gun. So buy a box of each available to you and test them! In that same class we had two almost identically equipped Beretta 1301s and they shot the Fiocchi ammo I mentioned earlier differently. One gun really liked it, but the other sprayed it all over the place and preferred something else better.
 
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