Recoil spring change with Buffalo Bore ammo?

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by kraigster414, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. kraigster414

    kraigster414 New Member

    858
    Sep 6, 2004
    It seems that the P3AT handles the hot Buffalo Bore +P rounds very well. My question is, would it be adviseable to switch to the 13# P32 recoil spring when shooting Buffalo Bore ammo out of the P3AT? And will Wolff ever come out with dedicated heavy duty recoil springs for the P3AT? Thanks.
     
  2. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    I've gone through several boxes of BB in my P3AT with no sign of ill effect. Just ordered 2 more boxes this week too. When the springs do wear out, I'll just ask KT to ship some more :).

    I do have 2 sets of springs, though. The low wear set is what I carry and check the weapon function against once a month. The high wear set is what I use for testing, to tweak something in, and for fun. When the high wear set breaks down, I'll shift the previous carry set to fill the high wear role, and use the new springs for carry and functional check.

    This kind of round-robin swap strategy ensures that I'm not carrying a set that is near to being broken down.
     

  3. kraigster414

    kraigster414 New Member

    858
    Sep 6, 2004
    Thanks WG.  Sounds good to me :).  I am really impressed with the Buffalo Bore .380 ammo.  I did some informal wet pack testing of both the FMJ FN and JHC and was amazed at the penetration out of both.  I would definitely not want to be on the receiving end of this stuff (or any other .380 ammo for that matter but especially the Buffalo Bore).   It is now my carry ammo of choice in my P3AT and LCP.
     
  4. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Regarding the flat nose bullet - before the high power Buffalo Bore came along, I staggered ammo. HP, FMJ, HP, FMJ etc due to what appeared to me to be inadequate penetration of FMJ rounds by Corbon, Double Tap, and the rest.

    When BB became available, I tested all 3 of their bullets and found only the hard cast lead round faulty - it breaks up resulting in poor penetration.

    However, their HP gave what I consider to be sufficient penetration. I'm sure that the flat nose would penetrate more (with zero expansion), but the plan is to first get penetration - then once that is accomplished - work on expansion. The BB HP is the only thing I carry for those reasons - in .380, .357 magnum, and .40.

    There is a problem with the BB round, however (besides price). Its high power causes rounds to hit noticeably higher than they should. For me - 6 inches at 21 feet with a 1 hand grip. So, I use a laser site to compensate. Admitedly, not much of a problem for the close up duty these pocket guns are made for - but something to be aware of.
     
  5. kraigster414

    kraigster414 New Member

    858
    Sep 6, 2004
    Good to know about the POI with the Buffalo Bore rounds.  I have yet to try them on a conventional target - so far my testing has been limited to wet pack (phone books) placed only a few feet away.  I intend to carry the BB HP and FMJ FN in  both my LCP and P3AT.  And I plan to install a Crimson Trace on the LCP when it becomes available in about a month.  Not sure what I want to do though with my 2g P3AT.  I got rid of the Armalaser I had on it some time ago.  But based on what you said about the POI, I am wondering if I should buy another laser for that gun too.

    Just how much BB have you fired out of your P3AT?  No noticeable wear?  I think this is incredible ammo for personal defense and the word is spreading.  'Give or take .38 Special +P energy out of a tiny .380 pocket gun.  Aint't too shabby and it changes my opinion about these little .380's and their suitablilty for primary carry.  My pref is to load 6 BB hollow points on top of 1 BB FMJ FN.  That last shot is intended for max penetration because by that time the BG is breathing down on you fast and furious (assuming the previous 6 rounds didn't stop him/her in their tracks, unlikely but who knows).
     
  6. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    I don't think the Wolf 13 lb springs offer any advantage and FWIW, they are shorter than P3AT springs.  KTWM once told me that P3AT springs are 12.5 pounds.  Wilson did some head to head testing some time back and preferred the stock KT springs.  He actually felt they handled recoil better and had the added advantage of being free. He ended up putting the Wolf springs in his P32s.  I heard more noise a while back from Wolf about extra power P3AT springs but so far it has been al talk and no action.  Any idea about the springs in the LCP?  With it's ounce heavier slide, perhaps it has slightly heavier recoil springs that could be used to good advantage in the P3AT.
     
  7. kraigster414

    kraigster414 New Member

    858
    Sep 6, 2004
    TX, I thought about the LCP recoil spring in the P3AT but I am reluctant to be the guinea pig and I have not heard or read about anyone trying it out.  It would be interesting though to see.  My concern and it may be unfounded, is that there is so little tension when insterting the recoil spring assembly in the P3AT or the LCP for that matter, that a round as hot as the Buffalo Bore would really take its toll on the gun wear-wise.  But more importantly (to me) now is the issue of POI with the BB.  If the BB's are hitting as high as reported, certainly a laser would make good sense.  The question is, is the BB round so good that it justifies alone the cost of another laser, and then I'd probably want one on both my P3AT and LCP.  I have complete trust in both these guns now. Thank you.  Decisions, decisions.
     
  8. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    I'm I little hesitant about linking to post on this site, BUT here is discussion on recoil springs where the attempt was to compare the LCP with KTs and try to determine if the P32 Wolffs were an increase. However in the 4 pages of disussion no one could provide measurements for the LCPs nor the Wolffs.

    an interesting note is the spring force values floating around have the KT P3ATs at 12 to 13, but the LCPs at 9 to 10. Near the end of the discussion, a calculation data sheet for the KTs P3AT and P32, using best known spring material has interesting results. This could imply that for the KT springs to have the force values floating around, the material used must be superior the to industries best ( which KT claims)

    http://rugerforum.org/phpBB/viewtop...ring&sid=9bc7516492e7376aebbe64b90e3f20d7
     
  9. kraigster414

    kraigster414 New Member

    858
    Sep 6, 2004
    Thank you JFB.  Assuming you and Txcajun concur, I think there is real benefit to linking to posts at ruger forum.  Simply because there are so many similarities between the LCP and P3AT and what applies to one, often applies to the other.  By confining your reading to one site only, you could very well miss out on something interesting and relevant to both guns. Hopefully by this time, the sensitivities have calmed over which gun is better and why.  I am going to check out that link. 'Much appreciated.

    Postscript:  Wow!  I don't  know how I missed that discussion on springs.  I am still digesting all the info and it definitely applies to the P3AT.  So in your opinion, are the stock P3AT springs up to handling the Buffalo Bore rounds?
     
  10. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    Hey, it should apply....It is all KT info with just speculations about the others ;D ;D
     
  11. kraigster414

    kraigster414 New Member

    858
    Sep 6, 2004
    LOL.  Info is info and I'll take it wherever I can find it.  Thanks.  I think it went a long way to educating the LCP owner about recoil springs. 'A very interesting and informative read.
     
  12. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    I'll have to admit that I have not fired any BB. However, with no standard for +P ammo in 380 apc, and product liability being what it is, I have to wonder if it is loaded any hotter than Fiochii, Dynamit Nobel, Corbon, Double Tap, etc...

    What I might do is the majority of my practice with a "standard", not to mention cheaper ammo, then a few mags of the hot stuff while changing the stock recoil springs a bit more often. Normally, I think KT recoil springs can go 1000 rounds. When shooting the old dreaded Santa Barbara (that stuff is/was obviously hot), Wilson used to change his recoil springs every 300 rounds. That might have been overkill, but then Wilson is never shy about asking for free springs from KT. :)