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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My replacement slide came back from keltec yesterday (number 4 for this gun). It replaces a slide that had peened noticeably after 330 rounds. There was a note on the work order: "Please use the enclosed rod and springs, not the ones you have". The rod they sent is stainless, and is .034" longer than the original blued one I had. It protrudes out the front of the slide like so:


The diameter of the rod and the rodhead remain the same as the old one. I put 92 rounds thru this slide today without any failures. There is only slight peening after the 92 rounds. I will shoot it again and monitor for further peening. This slide also has the machining marks on the inside of the left hand rail.
Mack
 

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Do the springs appear to be the normal, stock P3AT spings.
I would guess so. :-/
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The springs they sent are a bit shorter than ones I ordered a couple weeks ago, otherwise the same.

recoil rod and springs received with slide #4 on feb16 2007 :

The rod is stainless, not blued.

New rod is 2.154" long. it is .132" in diameter.
the head is .248" diameter.

the large outer spring is 2.7" long , 23 coils, .028" stock

the smaller inner spring is 2.8" long, 31 coils , .020" stock


TxCajun said:
Do the springs appear to be the normal, stock P3AT spings.  
I would guess so.   :-/
 

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Thanks for the report. I was hoping they had the fix for this problem. Guess not :(
What do they think the longer (unsightly) rod will accomplish? Do they think the original rod was causing the peening somehow? The fix seems to bring on more questions than answers.
 

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How is the bottom of the recoil spring hole in the slide.

Drilled with a tapered bottom or milled with a flat bottom?

As far as if spring are stock;

fmack said:
...the large outer spring is ..., 23 coils, .028" stock
the smaller inner spring is ... 31 coils , .020" stock
new outer 23 X 0.028 = 0.644 solid
new inner 31 X 0.020 = 0.620 solid

JFB said:
...I measured the spring space available when the slide goes all the way back till it hits the frame
lenght in the slide's hole 0.250"
length of the frame's spring groove 0.470"
less the thichness of guide rod head 0.040"
space = 0.680"

my inner spring wire is 0.020"
there are 32 turns
solid lenght = 0.640"

my outer spring wire is 0.028" (maybe 0.029)
there are 26 turns
solid lenght is 0.728 ...
Thus your new outer spring will stack less than my original.

I would think with your stack (compared with my frame and slide) the slide will contact the frame before the coils go solid.  You should be able to see this by looking between the slide and grip with slide pulled back.

Cutting a coil will reduce the spring force, but very little. thus a normal 12# will be 12 X 54/58 = 11.2#
Correction, the force at full compresion is a function of the coil pitch and NOT the number of coils.

I would now keep an eye on the frame rails, where the slide will be hitting.
 

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JFB said:
Cutting a coil will reduce the spring force, but very little.  thus a normal 12# will be 12 X 54/58 = 11.2#

I would now keep an eye on the frame rails, where the slide will be hitting.
Cutting a coil INCREASES the spring rate, makes it stiffer. There is less metal to bend, so the resistance increases. If one complete coil can flex say .05" than two coils can flex .10". Sounds backwards but if you think about it, it makes sense. Think of a spring as a one long striaght piece of steel. The longer the piece the easier it is to bend. Shorten it , it's harder. Now wrap that same piece to make a coil spring. The more coils the softer the spring. Racing 101. Your coil bound length will be less of course.
 

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inothome said:
Cutting a coil INCREASES the spring rate, makes it stiffer....
So If I clip a few coils I can increase the spring force at full recoil from 12 to 15 pounds.

So I don't need to wait for wolff to make an extra force P3AT spring

now where are those pliers
 

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fmack said:
My replacement slide came back from keltec yesterday (number 4 for this gun). It replaces a slide that had peened noticeably after 330 rounds. There was a note on the work order: "Please use the enclosed rod and springs, not the ones you have". The rod they sent is stainless, and is .034" longer than the original blued one I had. It protrudes out the front of the slide like so:


The diameter of the rod and the rodhead remain the same as the old one. I put 92 rounds thru this slide today without any failures. There is only slight peening after the 92 rounds. I will shoot it again and monitor for further peening. This slide also has the machining marks on the inside of the left hand rail.
Mack
That looks like more peening after 92 than mine looks after 243. If the slide they send looks like that, I'll probably just keep the recoil assembly and my old slide.

*grumble*
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That pic is a bit out of focus. I think it looks worse than it really is. I can feel the sharp lip around the rod hole with my finger, but just barely.
Mack


Keef said:
That looks like more peening after 92 than mine looks after 243.  If the slide they send looks like that, I'll probably just keep the recoil assembly and my old slide.  

*grumble*
 

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I think you would have to compensate for the shorter installed length for this to be true so as to maintain the original pre-load on the spring. If you cut the coil springs on a race car the weight of the car automatically accomplishes this for you. On a pistol there is nothing to do this unless you install a spacer to compensate for the coil(s) you cut off. Imagine cutting your 1911 (or what ever) recoil spring so that the front end of the spring just barely touched the front plug when you installed the bushing. You would have virtually no resistance to openning of the breach when the slide was in battery, and greatly reduced resistance to the recoiling of the slide as the slide moved to the rear.
inothome said:
Cutting a coil INCREASES the spring rate, makes it stiffer.  There is less metal to bend, so the resistance increases. If one complete coil can flex say .05" than two coils can flex .10".  Sounds backwards but if you think about it, it makes sense. Think of a spring as a one long striaght piece of steel. The longer the piece the easier it is to bend. Shorten it , it's harder. Now wrap that same piece to make a coil spring. The more coils the softer the spring. Racing 101. Your coil bound length will be less of course.
 

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PshootR said:
I think you would have to compensate for the shorter installed length for this to be true so as to maintain the original pre-load on the spring. If you cut the coil springs on a race car the weight of the car automatically accomplishes this for you. On a pistol there is nothing to do this unless you install a spacer to compensate for the coil(s) you cut off. Imagine cutting your 1911 (or what ever) recoil spring so that the front end of the spring just barely touched the front plug when you installed the bushing. You would have virtually no resistance to openning of the breach when the slide was in battery, and greatly reduced resistance to the recoiling of the slide as the slide moved to the rear.
It would depend on how many coils you cut off. I would be hesitant to install any spacers if I had a problem with the slide peening.
 

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inothome said:
It would depend on how many coils you cut off. I would be hesitant to install any spacers if I had a problem with the slide peening.
Explain this please? I have not cut any coils but I believe an appropriate spacer will do a lot to prevent slide peening. My washer is hard nylon and will 1) wear before the steel of the slide wears and 2) spread the load of the spring end over a larger part of the end of the slide (the purpose of a washer in general).

-Scott
 

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We're really paying a lot of attention to the peening at the end of the slide, and with good reason! However has anyone looked at the end of the recoil rod that slips into the lot on the barrel? I cleaned my 3AT today and the flat end of the rod is beat to He%$! I have 3 almost flat sides on it. The gun only has had a couple hundred rounds through it.

Anybody else notice this? I don't think that should be happening? The rod should be tempered pretty hard, Right??

Tim
 

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  If your barrel has a sharp edge in front of the recoil rod notch, then that is shaving your rod head when the pistol cycles. The cure is to file a bevel onto that sharp edge, then call KT service: 1-800-515-9983 for a free new recoil rod. Might as well get new springs too.

Packer.
 
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