[theDaddyShip]

Hi all. Newbie here.

Finally got my 9mm G17 sub out and put about 150 rounds through it. Lots of fun. Though I gotta get some slimmer ear-muffs for that cheek-weld...

The recoil wasn’t too bad all considered, but - in interest of getting my wife to use it and like using it - I want to explore some recoil management first.

I’ve read most of your threads here, and all are great. As well as many in the MCarbo forum. I THINK I am leaning towards the heavyweight bolt to start, even though it doesn’t add as much as either the MCarbo or Twisted Industries charging handles, as I’m leery of using a charging handle that takes a supplemental hard-to-place locking pin that makes it hard to field-strip in the field. I emailed Twisted, and they said theirs don’t - but their pics online make it look awfully like they could (or maybe that they are supplying MCarbo...). And I don’t want to get into a situation where I just forgo a locking pin where it’s recommended for the aftermarket part, and then it adds risk of the charging handle turning out of the recoil spring in a bad situation. The heavyweight bolt seems to sidestep all those cleanly, albeit with lower weight.

SO - what say ye? Start with the heavyweight bolt, even though nearly 2x the cost of a heavy charging handle? Use the Twisted handle? Wait for MCarbo’s revision that may mitigate the need for a locking pin (seen in a recent thread on their forum; exploring basically fixing the pin as a fixed-in-place new cap on the recoil spring)? Something else for recoil - e.g. other suppliers or solutions (muzzle brake, etc)?

 

[3wbdriver]

The heavier bolt is more intended to lessen the sharper recoil impulse from the 40 S&W round. It may adversely impact the cycling of lighter 115gr 9mm ammo. No empirical evidence for this. Just a potential FYI.

 

[silverback]

Get the recoil buffer , tube cover , heavy bolt first. I have recoiless charging handle and dont use pin no need. Hasn't failed me yet.
Muzzle brake is nice.

 

[BJK]

I shot butterfly fart loads in competition with the heavy bolt and had exactly zero malfunctions*. I also had MCarbos 2 finger charging handle and that broke from fatigue. They made good on it, but failure is NOT an option. Mass on the charging handle is a bad thing and needs to be handled in a way that lessens metal fatigue. That might mean a different alloy, IDK, that's above my pay grade. I added the heavy bolt not so much to save a shoulder that never needed saving but because any recoil mitigation means better scores.

*I now use a different firearm, same competition, same loads.

Ultimately the answer for the human body is in teaching how to actually handle recoil. In the sub2k it's really not a problem unless one just hasn't been taught. There is a pocket formed between the clavicle and shoulder. It's called the shoulder pocket. Firmly pull the gun back into that pocket. FIRMLY! Recoil from much larger recoiling guns won't bother if it's done right. Yeah, I know it's counter intuitive, but trust me, it works for guns that actually recoil. The 9mm doesn't have any to mention and I'm mystified by folks who think it does. But still, the answer is using the shoulder pocket. It's our built in recoil pad that everyone comes equipped with.

 

[Saltlick]

my first upgrade to my Sub2000 (.40s&w glock22) was the heavy-weight bolt from KelTec's official website. what a difference it made!! highly recommend the heavy bolt, a noticeable decrease in felt recoil. in addition, i would also add the recoil buffer (only $10).
i do have the recoilless charging handle (M*CARBO), but i must admit, the retaining pin is a pain in the d|ck!!
the (M*CARBO) buttstock pad helps significantly in recoil management as well.
i have the muzzle brake, not yet installed, so cannot comment on performance.
i will be adding the OdinWorks Zulu2.0 buttstock soon, and by design, the recoil should be next to nothing; especially with the heavy bolt, recoilless charging handle, and recoil buffer; and (soon) the muzzle brake. with my set-up current (heavy bolt, recoilless charging handle, recoil buffer, and the buttstock pad) the recoil is already damn near nothing (.40s&w).
hope this helps!!

 

[Cokeman]

Get some good earplugs. Even thin muffs suck with a rifle.

 

[Dubar]

Ear plugs and a butt pad, the recoil isn't that bad but the waffle pattern on the stock may/will leave an imprint on her shoulder. I put a simple piece of clear tubing on the charging handle, heat it in a cup of water in the microwave and then slip it over the handle. I think I posted this somewhere in another topic.

 

[unodemo]

I'm going to go in a different direction and recommend learning to operate the S2K first. It's takes a little time to get used to it. The aftermarket add-on's can lead to the separation of you and your $.

I've run every 9mm load I can think of and recoil isn't an issue in the S2K. A heavier bolt doesn't make sense right now.

Operate the stock charging handle for a while. I like that it's there and still out of the way.

Some of my mods:
* The MCarbo buffer add-on didn't feel like it made any real difference.
* Added a 1/16" pad to the stock simply because I don't like the waffle texture. Too much recoil pad thickness starts length-of-pull issues.
* Added a wrap of electrical tape between the bolt tube and stock to close the gap that would cause cheek pinching. Just cut away any tape that would get into the charging handle cutout.
* Added a Magpul Rail Vertical Grip. I tried the AFG and it didn't work for me.
* Just for fun, I added a KVP Linear Comp.

Then there's sighting the S2K...

Fully engaging the stock with the shoulder forces me into an awkward position for achieving a satisfactory cheek weld. I now use a raised sighting technique where only the foot of the S2K stock is engaged with my shoulder. The stock is in placed the little hollow between where the humerus and clavicle appear to join. Using the RVG to pull in the S2K means the shoulder is set to properly absorb the recoil. Dumping a 35 round mag now doesn't leave me wincing or sore.

 

[BJK]

I'm going to go in a different direction and recommend learning to operate the S2K first. It's takes a little time to get used to it. The aftermarket add-on's can lead to the separation of you and your $.

<snip>

Fully engaging the stock with the shoulder forces me into an awkward position for achieving a satisfactory cheek weld. I now use a raised sighting technique where only the foot of the S2K stock is engaged with my shoulder. The stock is in placed the little hollow between where the humerus and clavicle appear to join. Using the RVG to pull in the S2K means the shoulder is set to properly absorb the recoil. Dumping a 35 round mag now doesn't leave me wincing or sore.

Dittos. There should be a reason for every modification.

I found the buffer to a PITA. I can't remember why. Extraction of the unfired round? Locking open? I just don't remember. I know it didn't last long in my sub2k.

For some reason recoil appears to be an ongoing huge issue and it really shouldn't require a technological fix. Just shoot the thing and train the shoulder to absorb the mousegun recoil. Really. There is virtually no recoil with 9mm in a carbine. With proper technique and training one can absorb far more recoil than the miniscule amount the 9mm in any flavor produces against the shoulder.

I shoot competition and I modified things that most people won't need to. But in competition time means a lot and one tries this and that, keeping some and rejecting many mods*. One thing I definitely recommend to everyone is to put a red dot on the sub2k and raise it up. I have mine on a Midwest Industries mount and it just made the rifle come alive. It also allows me to get the butt pad "down" and nestled into the shoulder pocket for the best recoil mitigation and control. In competition one can empty a 30 round mag' in seconds and recoil just can't even be thought of. There's just too much else to consider and recoil is just a distraction from what's important, which is the balancing act of time vs accuracy. There is no time to hurt. But again, 9mm generates squat for recoil.

*Sometimes a modification doesn't show it's worth, but if it didn't screw anything up it's kept anyway for the theoretical betterment of the firearm. I place the heavy bolt weight in that category. I felt no significant difference before/after but in theory the additional mass will help chamber a reload that isn't all that it could be. So it stays in my gun. Others might feel a difference with recoil; all I can state is that I didn't. Another in that category is a compensator. I read the writings of others that state for 9mm it does nothing. Maybe so, but anything that helps counteract muzzle flip and recoil speeds me up, and my follow up shots are extremely fast. Too, it lengthens the barrel on my (now) SBR to help protect my fingers. The compensator stays. Nothing on any of my guns is there for looks or to burn up $ needlessly.

 

[Dubar]

I don't compete, but I did shoot my Sub2000 today at the 50yd range w/o scope, just iron sights. Shot my new 8" plate and 2 stick-on targets, the other stick-on was mainly for my Rossi RS22 so I won't show that target:

No hiccups at all with the carbine, shot approx 175rnds.

 

[silverback]

Sweet!

 

[Thomas7791]

Hi all. Newbie here.

Finally got my 9mm G17 sub out and put about 150 rounds through it. Lots of fun. Though I gotta get some slimmer ear-muffs for that cheek-weld...

The recoil wasn’t too bad all considered, but - in interest of getting my wife to use it and like using it - I want to explore some recoil management first.

I’ve read most of your threads here, and all are great. As well as many in the MCarbo forum. I THINK I am leaning towards the heavyweight bolt to start, even though it doesn’t add as much as either the MCarbo or Twisted Industries charging handles, as I’m leery of using a charging handle that takes a supplemental hard-to-place locking pin that makes it hard to field-strip in the field. I emailed Twisted, and they said theirs don’t - but their pics online make it look awfully like they could (or maybe that they are supplying MCarbo...). And I don’t want to get into a situation where I just forgo a locking pin where it’s recommended for the aftermarket part, and then it adds risk of the charging handle turning out of the recoil spring in a bad situation. The heavyweight bolt seems to sidestep all those cleanly, albeit with lower weight.

SO - what say ye? Start with the heavyweight bolt, even though nearly 2x the cost of a heavy charging handle? Use the Twisted handle? Wait for MCarbo’s revision that may mitigate the need for a locking pin (seen in a recent thread on their forum; exploring basically fixing the pin as a fixed-in-place new cap on the recoil spring)? Something else for recoil - e.g. other suppliers or solutions (muzzle brake, etc)?

I came over from the mcarbo forum to see what’s going on in the sub community. I started with the heavy bolt. From Kel-Tec s website. And the buffer tube cover, double finger charging handle the red buffer washer, the hybrid muzzle break/compensator and the buttstock pad all from m carbo. Now IM NOT FINISHED with the complete build but I took my 14 and 10 y/o daughters as well as my wife to the range on separate occasions and these mods take the sub to ANOTHER PLANET on comparison. But I modified the bus stock pad with some 10/24 bolts, compression springs, washers and female 10/24 bolt posts and there IS 0% RECOIL NOW!!! You may feel A JIGGLE ON YOUR ARM BUT ITS NOT EVEN NOTICEABLE!! It just floats. I actually had to look at the camera footage to even see if my arm even moved at all when shooting. The hardware for the buttstock pad mid only costed me 15.00 at Menards. Hope it helps pal.

 

[Thomas7791]

 

[mrwug]

View attachment 50256 View attachment 50258 View attachment 50260 View attachment 50262

Nice nerd graphics! :tu:

 

[unodemo]

What in the seriously is going on with the shock absorber S2K? It's either a 9mm or .40 S&W PCC, aka mouse fart or bigger mouse fart. What's important about no recoil on a S2K?

That sprung recoil system looks like it's just raring to bite anyone that gets near it.

Am I completely missing something here?

I have a proposition. Learn to operate the S2K as-is and let the recoil be your positive feedback.

+1 for adding the sling clip.

 

[Cokeman]

You are missing something. The shock absorber is awesome. All the right rest of us have them on our Sub2Ks now.

 

[unodemo]

That's cool. I choose to miss out on a S2K shock absorber.

 

[Brian Ultican]

Brand new to the forum. Sub2000 is the first 'long gun' I've owned in 30 years and Im loving it.

MCARBO just released a new pin that mounts directly to the spring instead of 'floating' around in there.
It kind sucks to install it but once it's on, IT'S ON for good.
The forum here will not let me post a link but search their site for
"KEL-TEC SUB-2000 Integrated Tool-Less Locking Pin for Aftermarket Charging Handles"
I have the two finger handle, the tube 'sleeve' and the buffer and just ordered the heavier bolt.

 

[Brian Ultican]

"i will be adding the OdinWorks Zulu2.0 buttstock soon"
I'd be interested in seeing how that works out.

 

[Saltlick]

"i will be adding the OdinWorks Zulu2.0 buttstock soon"
I'd be interested in seeing how that works out.

@Brian Ultican check out this thread:
https://www.thektog.org/threads/stock-modification-the-odin-works-zulu.272244/