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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I used to have a P3AT for about 5mins. When I buying it, my dad bought it (I was 19 at the time) and on the ride home, he decided that he would just keep it for himself. Then my mom thought it was cute, and declared it her gun! Its his carry gun now. Anyways, that was my 5 mins of KT ownership, on to my question:

Are Kel-Tecs (mostly 380) really that bad in reliability or do people just limp wrist them to cause FTE? I've had people fire my dads 380 and they had FTE. I've had a few, but I know I was limp wristing them. My dad has never had a FTE besides the time he learned he needed to clean behind the extractor. I've also seen 2 people shoot the same P3AT and one have problems and the other none at all?

I can not see KT, or any company, putting out such a bad product that has such a high failure rate.

Is is the gun or the shooter?
 

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ISUSteve said:
Is is the gun or the shooter?  
Yes.  

And in all sincerity, probably yes.  

These little weapons are on the verge of power/size ratio.  If everything is perfect they function flawlessly.  Once you start to introduce ANY imperfections (dry weapon, burrs, weak/dirty mags, limpwristing, etc. etc. etc.) in even the tiniest amount, you start to introduce the possibility of failures.  Some actually have some mechanical issues that might need addressed by replacing parts (and KT will gladly do that for you either through the mail or if you send it to them).  The more of the imperfections you have in combination the more likely you might have a failure.  As you have found out, the same weapon will function fine in some hands and not in others.  But then there are some weapons that just will not fail no matter how much you limpwrist them and that tells me EVERYTHING (or at least enough of the other things) is functioning at or near perfect in that particular weapon.  

I have some P40s that I can shoot 200 rounds through without a failure and anywhere in that process give to a buddy of mine who is extremely experienced in weapons and he cant get one mag out without 2-3 failures.  

That is why I don't believe you can just hand someone a P3AT and say "its a great gun put it in your drawer and use it if you have to" but rather (again, I believe) a person needs to prove competency with this weapon to deserve the right to own it.  :)

Does that muddy your waters?

-Scott
 

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ISUSteve said:
I've also seen 2 people shoot the same P3AT and one have problems and the other none at all?
Pretty much answers the questions right there. In this case I'd say it is an operator problem.



That doesn't mean that it is always the case. My first 380 had FTE problems, a trip to KT and it functions perfectly now. It required a new slide to fix the problem.
 

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Zeke is dead on. If one person shoots it %100, and another has multiple failures, then it's time to check operator head space.

Or, in my line of work, we say it's an ID 10T error.

Not that those who limp-wrist are fools, just.... Oh, never mind, bad comparison...

Anyway...

My wife and I each have a 3AT. Both are over 400 rounds. Both have had zero failures.

KT sells 3ATs faster than they can make them, and they never last long in ANY shop.

I don't think they ALL have problems. ;)



Welcome Aboard!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm just tired of hearing how bad Kel-Tec is. Guys saying "I've shot it and I had 4 FTE in one mag."
What would be interesting to know for KT is the percentage of guns which go back and fire fine at the factory. Anybody have this stat or can make it up?
 

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Hearing about how bad KT is from where?  Last "published" stats were 3% return rate.  And we can only assume a vast majority of those are operator failures for LW'ing but I have never seen a KT number as to how many are fine upon their return???

-Scott (who's probably not a lawyer but just a moron running for president)
 

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Hey Scott, it's an IT/Techie thing...

An "ID 10 T" error is...

ID10T

(IDIOT)

;)

The other term we sometimes (but rarely, as I work in phones) use is PEBKAC.

"We've got another PEBKAC error..."



Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

:)
 

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Thanks Lurker - only now I am in serious trouble.  Wifey read this.  Wifey is a comp sci programmer and used to work support.  She now is too embarrassed to be seen with me and keeps repeating "why didn't you ask me first before posting this???????"  She is rolling her eyes and walking around moaning at how stupid her husband is.

She did not know what a PEBKAC error was though.

-Scott (who's probably not a lawyer but just a moron running for president)
 
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adamsesq said:
Hearing about how bad KT is from where?  Last "published" stats were 3% return rate.  And we can only assume a vast majority of those are operator failures for LW'ing but I have never seen a KT number as to how many are fine upon their return???

-Scott (who's probably not a lawyer but just a moron running for president)
OIK, who published that percentage??Did Kt publish it or was it a forum poster. I cannot imagine kt letting out that info and for anyone else to post such would IMO be pure B. S.
 

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jocko said:
[quote author=adamsesq link=1194484611/0#7 date=1194496548]Hearing about how bad KT is from where? Last "published" stats were 3% return rate. And we can only assume a vast majority of those are operator failures for LW'ing but I have never seen a KT number as to how many are fine upon their return???

-Scott (who's probably not a lawyer but just a moron running for president)
OIK, who published that percentage??Did Kt publish it or was it a forum poster. I cannot imagine kt letting out that info and for anyone else to post such would IMO be pure B. S.
[/quote]

Yo jocko! Check your PMs. ;)
 

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I would say limp wristing. I have owned 2 3ATs and both have functioned well, my fisrt one just needed the feed ramp smoothed out to feed hollow points. After that it was good to go. My second one has yet to have a problem, and im not even through breakin. Im only 100 rounds in...
 
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