Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have a 17” RDB with MCARBO springs and a Lucky Irishman rail. I have put about 1000 rounds through the gun suppressed and unsuppressed, not a single hiccup. Well I go to sight in the Romeo5 that I put on it to replace the Holosun 507c I had on it before. Well low and behold I start getting double and triple fires. I tried some commercial XM193 and another 80-100 rounds of reloaded XM193 I made to mirror the load and it happen with both, my gas setting was about 5 from max (+). None of my other rifles or pistols have issues with the reloads and now I have no confidence in the RDB.

I was touting the praises of the RDB to anyone who would listen and I even preferred it over my Tavor X95. But now that these double fires are happening I can’t trust it. I contacted Kel-Tec and their best answer was send it in. I don’t want to lose the gun for 2 months for them to get it and tell me they can find any issues. My RDB is in the C2..... series and I wonder if there is anything else they would fix or replace since I don’t think it’s a brand new gun? Is it worth it to send it in for an overhaul. Now to the meat of the question, should I send it in or should I mess with the gas system more? It really doesn’t seem like the gas system would effect double fires and as neat as it is to shoot the abomination that is my RDB now because it’s controlled firing as it stops when I let go of the trigger, I really don’t want to deal with any legal reprocussions of having a sort of full auto or burst item that isn’t NFA approved.
What else would Kel-Tec fix while it’s there?

Also I can’t find my receipt are they going to prison rape me with repair costs because I can’t find the receipt?

I really love Kel-Tec. I have a KSG, CP33 and a PF9 and the RDB as been a diamond in the rough that is Kel-Tec. I will say Tim from customer service was super nice when I called but they didn’t really want to talk about fixes I could maybe do, but instead just told me to send it in.
I have done a lot of research on these boards and not a lot of people have fixed the same issue, and there are a lot of people that have had the issue, and their resolution after sending it in with answers from Kel-tec ranging from replacing bolts, carriers and even FCG’s. Some people have talked about adjusting the gas because essentially it’s bumpfiring from being over gassed but I really question the logistics to that solution. Some people have even surmised that shooting from a bench is causing bump fires but I have shoot off bench, on bench, stationary and on the run and get it to double fire no matter what I do. I even let a friend try the RDB and he was able to repeat the issue.
I am open to all input and suggestions.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,985 Posts
You have to put the OE trigger springs back in and test it. Did you tell Tim about the springs?
RDB already has one of the best bull pup triggers. I fail to see the need. This isn't a target rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have them around somewhere. But with a 1000 rounds under its belt with no issues how can could all the sudden does the MCARBO springs cause an issue? Also they will install the MCARBO springs at the factory so why would they do that if they don’t work?

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,985 Posts
Other RDBs have had fire control issues. This isn't anything new. No one has been able to find an exact reason. I can only suggest going back to the OE springs as a first step. Call it returning to the baseline for troubleshooting a problem.

And make sure the firing pin isn't broken and is clean and the pin hole is clean. Check for sticking firing pin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I did a complete disassemble and relube.

The firing pin is in good shape and not sticking unless there is something I’m missing, but I know my way around the inside of the RDB.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,985 Posts
I wish I knew the answer, doubles have plagued RDB. Usually on newer rifles.
Ive had a few too, but not enuf to be a problem.
I hope you get to the bottom of it and let us know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
284 Posts
As much as I love Kel-Tec is this a sell the rifle kind of moment?
No, it's not, and selling a rifle that's having issues probably isn't the best route to take.

Have you ever adjusted your gas settings? Try doing that per the manual's instructions. The only times i've observed the double firing is when my gas was set too high.

If you still have issues and your trigger is back to stock springs give Kel Tec a call. Their service department is usually very helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So in discussing gas settings what’s a good starting point I think I was near the top range with the first 1000 rounds but with my reloads maybe they were hot, so I took it down 8 from the top or (+) and haven’t tried it again. I am open for all recommendations. I don’t want to send it back if I can fix it. Should you be adjusting you gas every time you switch Ammo?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
511 Posts
So...Why is it so high? B+12 to 15...
Im at B+5 and I shoot all manner of ammunition. Set using Frontier 55gr (but use up to 75gr Frontier on the same setting).
If you were using the 308 RFB..and jumping between Brass vs Steel case or 168gr match vs 147gr Surplus..Yea..All of (4) those require a different setting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That’s just where it was. So I need to be bottomed out at zero and go up 5.
With the rifle facing forward, I’m looking down the rail with the muzzle forward, like I’m shooting the rifle, I would turn right to the bottom (-) then back 5 right and this is a do all setting for you? I might have solved my issue if this is the case as I was beating the gun apart over-gassing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
511 Posts
That’s just where it was. So I need to be bottomed out at zero and go up 5.
With the rifle facing forward, I’m looking down the rail with the muzzle forward, like I’m shooting the rifle, I would turn right to the bottom (-) then back 5 right and this is a do all setting for you? I might have solved my issue if this is the case as I was beating the gun apart over-gassing it.
Its a do all for me..But I also use roughly the same bullet weight.. Shooting Tula and wolf this doesn't work.Best to work up the settings that work with your rifle using the least amount of gas in the system.

Yea..thats the bottom all the way (-)..The gun is not set from the factory for YOUR ammo its set for what they run..(Fiocchi 55gr I think/looking at returns slips for guns with gas issues **RDB facebook group))

Id Start @ B+10
Turn the gas knob all the way (-) until it cant turn and then count/turn back(+) 10..
This is Bottom +10..
Now shoot 1 round in the mag at a time back until it doesn't lock back (say -2 each round).
Then go back up (+)2 for reliability

Just for reference, the difference between a hunting 223 load and m193 or mk262 military 5.56 loads can be an adjustment of around 3-4 clicks more or less in gas. Again..All dependent on the ammunition you shoot.

Here's a vid I did tuning my RFB to a load.
Its exactly the same process on the Rdb.
The operating range for the 2 guns is similar Per Chad from Keltec.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,985 Posts
This settings recommendations stuff is going to be different for everybody based on gas head carbon buildup and ammo, etc.
I have found adjusting by the brass necks will give the best indicator of proper adjustment, and it is in the instructions to do it that way.
Adjust your gas so you get slightly dented case necks. I train to capture a case on eject every so often to monitor my pressures because it will change during a shoot, between ammo, and after cleaning. But, yes, in general, most RDB, non-suppressed, will run within the last 5-7 clicks from full (-). I won't use CCW or CW as this means different things to different pple.

@Wallace91 do you have any of your doubles brass to look at?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Tim from customer service said it’s not the gassing causing issues after talking to him longer today and to send it back to have it worked over and there was some other upgrades they would add on it. So it’s on its way to Keltec after fighting with the post office about not being a FFL and shipping to a manufacturer. But I won in the end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
511 Posts
Tim from customer service said it’s not the gassing causing issues after talking to him longer today and to send it back to have it worked over and there was some other upgrades they would add on it. So it’s on its way to Keltec after fighting with the post office about not being a FFL and shipping to a manufacturer. But I won in the end.
I still say your running the gun over gassed. Might be interesting to see what the repair slip says.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
The stubbornness of people astounds me sometimes. If your gun is doubling (or more) and it's not a result of an immediate change that you made, send it back to be examined. Because what you have is an unregistered machine gun. The ATF doesn't care about "whoopsy". People have been arrested and charged (and in one case convicted) because they were at the range and their gun doubled or went full auto because "reasons", and a cop happened to be there. In one case another shooter reported the person to a park ranger who then brought in the Feds.

Don't take chances. Send it in (don't use USPS, they lose things, a lot). Kel Tec will fix it under warranty. And if they do charge you because you don't have your receipt or whatever, which is more expensive, shop labor or a $250k fine and 10 yrs in prison?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
MadRonin I did send the gun back.

But I do always like to figure out what’s going on my with my firearms but in this case after talking to Kel-tec I decided it was better for them to have a look at it.
That being said, guns aren’t mystical beings, they are machines, so there is a reason something is happening besides “God!” Also letting them do any warranty upgrades would be nice too. I have faith they won’t screw me over since they have been very accommodating in the past.

Also I have a private range so no cop or FUDD is turning me in at all. That was not a concern but I do have my kids shoot with me and having double and triple fires is a recipe for disaster that means more to me then money. My children’s lives are the most value able thing I have so I would never risk them shooting and turning the gun into one of their brothers because it keeps firing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,985 Posts
@Wallace91 I would be very surprised if KT put in writing a detailed explanation of what the cause was. Most notes from KT I have read about (cause yall share it here) are usually benign things like "polished feed ramp" and "adjusted gas settings". I can almost put money on them not being able to replicate to problem and fully fix it because they will not spend any money on ammo. They're not going to shoot it enough to get hot. Sorry for the pessimism. I DO hope you are taken care of and your KT product is all you want it to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I hope so too. I’ll mess with the gas if it still happens.
Hopefully the other upgrades they said that have changed since my rifle was made will make it worth it. Oh well I tried.
I guess I’ll shoot more of the braced CP33 since I just picked up 3k worth of 22 from Walmart today. Got to love it when you hit the store just right and get that 22 at pre Ammo shortage prices.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top