Rate Your PMR-30's Reliability

Discussion in 'PMR-30' started by TxCajun, May 8, 2011.

  1. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING...

    If you do not own a PMR, please select the last option and you will be able to see the results of this poll.

    If you do own a PMR, please vote only one time unless you have had a ruptured case.  If you experienced a ruptured case, vote for that selection, plus the option that describes the general performance of your PMR without regard to the case failure.

    If you returned your PMR-30 for warranty service, select one of those options.  

    A generalization about pistols and Kel-tecs specifically, is that they often perform better after a breakin period.  If your gun was a little rough during the first 100 - 200 rounds, but improved after breakin, please rate it's post breakin performance.  We also know that rimfire semi-autos in general, and the PMR specifically, are often ammo selective.  If you found the gun didn't like some particular ammo, and later found ammo that it does like, please rate your gun based upon ammo that you have determined to perform well in your gun.  I'd like to weed out these two easily overcome variables, and give the readers an idea of what they might expect from a PMR once it is in "regular rotation."  


    A word about Polls:

    Polling is a science and the tools we have to work with here at KTOG are not the best.  However, we should be able to get some useful information.  Don't get hung up on the names assigned to each category.  For example, perhaps you do not consider 97% to be excellent.  Those are just words - go with the percentages.  To get in a reasonable number of choices  without a rediculous number of voting options, I grouped them in intervals of 4 percentage points.  Keeping the intervals all the same (histogram) is the only way to get fair information.  However, with yabb polling capability, I cannot go all the way to zero reliability, which would be the only totally fair representation of the data.  Therefore, please undertand that the interval for "Poor" is comparitlively huge with an interval of 85.  Statistically, that giant interval size should automatically cause that option to be highly selected.  Keep in mind that you do not know if a vote there represents 85%, or 0%, or something in between.  Again, we do not have the tools here for absolute perfection and I think we can all agree that 15 failures per hundred is certainly not acceptable.  By iliminating the 2nd choice (after warranty service) under each rating , I could have included more intervals and therefore achieved more accurate data, but knowlege of whether factory service resulted in a particular rating is also desirable.  It is a compromise.  

    Finally, a poll such as this cannot obtain nuances of data.  If you own a PMR and vote in this poll, please take the time to make a reply and to elaborate on your experiences with your gun.  



    P.S.

    I was pretty critical of a similar poll that has since been taken down.  As penance, I have assigned myself to contruct this poll.  With the tools available here, polling certain data (like this) is not easy to do well.  If you take exception with the perameters of this instrument and wish to complain, criticize or condemn, take your best shot.  I'm sure I have it coming.   :p  
     
  2. tx-rvr

    tx-rvr Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2004
    Abilene Texas
    Mine went back 2 times. Neither time was it a major trouble. First time was the slide lock wearing fast, and the second time was low point of aim. I have had a few failures to feed (some caused by bad ammo) and a couple of locking open with 1 round in the mag. Overall I would rate it very good, but not as good as my G1 P3AT or my PF-9. They were near perfect.




    Steve
     

  3. Mine runs great after a chamber polish done at home, so long as I keep it clean and load the magazines properly. It ran horribly out of the box, with almost every round FTExtract. I am assuming it had a burr, or something to that affect, but it almost appeared to be parkerized inside the chamber.
     
  4. gelhard

    gelhard New Member

    37
    Aug 27, 2008
    I would say good after warranty service because in less than a week (about 120 rnds) my slide lock spring became disconnected and it had to be sent in again but function wise till that point was excellent.
     
  5. AJCaruso

    AJCaruso New Member

    5
    Mar 8, 2011
    I voted excellent - 97%-100%. Right out of the box the gun ran fine. I did not strip it and clean it or give it a "fluff and buff" (I still haven't field stripped or cleaned the the gun) I've put about 300 rounds through it and have had 2 malfunctions. One, I believe was caused by the way I loaded the mag and one, I believe was caused by the ammunition. (30g Hornady v-max red tips - The first one did not extract, but the rest of the mag ran fine.)

    The initial "shoot-in or break-in" period didn't affect the guns reliability one bit.

    There is a little bit of "slide gap" between the frame and slide...It doesn't bother me.

    This is quickly becoming one of my favorite toys. I know its supposed to be a "fun gun" but with the right loads I think that the .22WMR is a formidable round...'specially since you're packing 30+ rounds. It's so nice and light that I've found myself carrying it - and I don't have any reservations about doing so since reliability has been super thus far...

    Regards,

    AJ
     
  6. dmkerns

    dmkerns New Member

    142
    Jan 9, 2011
    North Carolina
    I had very few problems with my PMR when I first starting shooting it and I would still be shooting it if I had not experience the case blowing up.
    I sent the gun in a few days ago so I will comment after its return.
    Dave
     
  7. munchie3409

    munchie3409 New Member

    112
    Mar 19, 2011
    So far I haven't had any issues since it came back from KT.
     
  8. CMil24

    CMil24 New Member

    3
    Mar 13, 2011
    I have approx 1000 rounds thru mine. I have found that for mine the reliability is at 99-100% when the gun is clean. I have never had any failures in the first 50 rounds after cleaning and only an occaisonal FTF in the next 50. After about 100 rounds the gun gets pretty dirty and will start having some FTF. Approx 2 or 3 FTFs per 50.
     
  9. mammynun

    mammynun New Member

    21
    Nov 23, 2010
    I voted "excellent after service." I didn't read all the choices before I voted, so I neglected to check "Had a ruptured case," which was the reason it went back to KT. It's been excellent for the~1k rounds since it was repaired.
     
  10. jonnin

    jonnin Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2010
    TX, can you hotwire the poll to remove the view-results as a category...?  

    Currently: 20 votes, so
    20%  excellent and stuff
    20%
    20%
    --------------
    0%    Pretty good and stuff
    10%
    5%
    5%
    --------
    more zeros...
    and 20% ruptured case..!

    or in summary
    60% excellent
    20% pretty good
    20% epic fail
     
  11. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Nope - not a capability of the poll.  The best I could do would be to remove that category.  I assume the poll would then adjust the percentages.  However, I'd have to close the poll or we'd go back to people with no PMR making up a vote to see the results.  Perhaps I'll do that at some point.

    I hope those who saw the orginal poll now understand my issue with the way it was set up.  The extreme vast majority of the data was made up by people who did not even own the gun but had to make up a vote in order to see the results.  You can easily see that in this poll, almost everyone who voted does not own a PMR.  In that earlier poll, they voted anyway and ruined the data which was completely useless and false.  That first poll even allowed notoriously unreliable guest (non-member) voting.  I could not, in good faith, let that stand without comment.  We try hard to keep the information posted here at KTOG reasonably fair and reliable.  When we see stuff that paints a false picture, we feel obligated to act.

    The polling capability here is quite limited and these polls are far more useful for obtaining data that is relatively back and white.  It is not particularly effective at discerning nuances of information, at least not without very careful consideration on setting up the mechanics of the poll.  Even then, one must read the comments, assuming they are reliable, and factor that into the data.  Some information is difficult to quantify with these tools.

     
    Even here, you only have a rough idea.  For starters, it's an extremely small sample.  With regard to the epic failure category, even that leaves something to be desired. IIRC, 1 or two case failures were essentially isolated incidents where the gun otherwise ran, and continued to run fine.  1 or 2 of those guns ran fine until the case failure and then were returned for service.  Only from the comments could we learn the rest of the story, and with only 4 votes in that category, the percentage swings considerably if you interpret or value the responses in a different way.

    Add to that, KT has now completely redesigned the barrel due to some apparent keyholing issues with some guns shooting some rounds.  To factor that into the equation, we'd have to totally redo the poll at some future point.  Again, this is all rather imperfect if somewhat scientific.  None-the-less, polling within these limitations can be interesting and useful, although certainly imperfect.   :-?
     
  12. Liberty4Ever

    Liberty4Ever Moderator Supporter

    May 19, 2006
    Lexington KY
    While I do think the issue of ruptured cases is something that should be addressed and not downplayed by Kel-Tec or KTOG, human nature being what it is, I think the percentages of ruptured cases is over-reported by this poll on KTOG. All online polling data is suspect. Unbiased polls are difficult to achieve, and they almost never arise from allowing people to vote if they're sufficiently interested to find the poll and vote. That's called inherent bias.

    If online polls were reliable, Ron Paul would have been elected in 2008 with 85% of the vote instead of Barack Obama.

    Hmmm... maybe we should look into online voting for presidential elections. :)
     
  13. Dutchone

    Dutchone New Member

    5
    Jul 26, 2012
    Friendswood, Texas
    I have two PMR-30's and a third one being shipped. I have put around 800 rounds through each of the two with absolute zero problems. 100% flawless regardless of ammo.
     
  14. MikeFmGa

    MikeFmGa New Member

    6
    Mar 22, 2012
    Georgia
    Not disapointed, but...

    I am very pleased with the performance of my PMR-30. I am only about 400 rounds into the break in period. I am having issues with ftf because the mag does not seem to seat correctly, this may be a function of the break in.

    I am a bit disappointed with Kel-tec. I contacted them via email about 2 weeks ago about the mag issue, I still have not got feedback. I have heard many folks praise Kel-tec's tech support, I can not at this time.

    At this time I would not depend on the PMR-30 as a trail gun or in a firefight.
     
  15. AO

    AO Well-Known Member

    Call them, don't email..
     
  16. FullMetalJacket

    FullMetalJacket New Member

    174
    Jan 14, 2006
    I'm guessing it was a typo, but you first said you are very pleased with the performance of your PMR-30 then go on to explain how you are not pleased? Try contacting kel-tec by phone, you never know if your email could have ended up in a spam folder somewhere and most businesses put phone calls as priority over emails (I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with kel-tec). I've had nothing but good experiences with Kel-tec support, which is a good thing because every kel-tec I've owned except my PMR-30 have had to go back to the factory to run reliably.
     
  17. combat wombat

    combat wombat New Member

    15
    Jul 23, 2012
    I went over 500 rounds today and no issues what so ever. I hade one fail to feed today but it may have been my fault in loading. No keyholes this time.
     
  18. FullMetalJacket

    FullMetalJacket New Member

    174
    Jan 14, 2006
    I have put 400-500 rounds total through my PMR-30 since I bought it a few weeks ago without any issues, I would rate the reliability as excellent thusfar.
     
  19. blusolstice

    blusolstice New Member

    34
    Sep 15, 2011
    out of the box my pmr30 wouldn't feed at all..after doing some work on the feed ramp and the area on the bolt below the firing pin it's getting alot better, a little more work and it should be resolved.
     
  20. rgkitchen

    rgkitchen Active Member

    445
    Jul 9, 2010
    Harrisburg, PA
    Purchased just before Thanksgiving, 2010.

    December 2010 (550 rounds): Returned because of feeding issues - came back upgraded and running 100%

    April 2011 (3,000 rounds): Returned because of ruptured case - came back upgraded and running 100%

    June 2011 (3,250 rounds): Broken take-down pin - received a replacement within the week.

    September 2011 (3,700 rounds): Returned because of trigger reset issue - came back upgraded and running 100%

    June 2012 (4,850 rounds): Returned because of broken firing pin (sent in only the slide/barrel) - came back with upgraded slide/barrel and running 100%

    The slide that I had just received has the newer polymer top grip (the part with the rear sight) which slightly mismatches my lower grip, but not enough to bother me, and the newer top grip is easier to grab when racking the slide.

    In July of 2011, I competed in a PPC (Police Pistol Combat) match and scored 554 out of 600. I was competing again this last June when my firing pin broke.

    Some may say that I must have the patience of Job, but I put a bunch of rounds down range over these past 21 months, and I had a blast doing it. I have a great relationship with Kel-Tec, and they have been more than accomodating. Except for the first month, this pistol has functioned 99.95% reliably, as far as feeding and firing goes. I've only put 150 rounds through it since receiving the replacement slide, and it functioned 100%.