Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talons

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by gatorhugger, Feb 9, 2008.

  1. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Put another 50 through the gun today. No problems whatsoever, so I consider her broke in.
    Started out firing in wet phone books, with Hydra shok, FMJ, and Hi shock.
    None of them expanded at all. the Hollowpoints went 7 inches, the FMJ, 8 inches.

    Switched to mud with a lot of organic straw, more like the human body anyway.

    The Hydra shok expanded just like advertised. The hi shok did too, but would always lose some jacket, but the lead did fully shroom. But went about 10" in. I don't really consider it too bad to lose a few grains of Jacket. Heck, they sell Prefragements that are supposed to do this. Another path of destruction in my book. As long as the lead core penetrates effectively.

    I did notice something, the Hydra is conical, the hi shok rounder. I Have photos, I don't know how to add them, in the photos you can see that the next round in battery got beat up severly in the P3at.
    The Hydra was really peeled back on the nose end, a lot more than the rounded Hi Shok. No doubt in a dirty gun these peeled back jackets add friction. I tried hand cycling one Hydra that had been chambered and I removed it to look at it. On the second try on chambering, it was definitely not a slick feed.
    Whether it makes a difference, I don't know. But IN THIS GUN, a rounder designed bullet seems called for just because of the damage a conical HP takes coming up to battery through the ejection of the previous round.
    I would stick with FMJ, Hi shoks, or maybe Golden sabers. This gun seems to really like rounder bullets.
    Overall a nice day in the woods, it's nice when everything works well.

    Oh, also tried Real old talons versus HST, Versus Gold dots in 9mm. Not really for this forum, but pretty cool test.
    The old talons, 147 grains are so impressive. They are evil! They shroom out, and still have a post behind them to break bones and carry on. They penetrated a full extra phone book over the HST's and Dots Too. So you have a full mushroom and them a stalk behind it. Looks like a stalk of Broccoli recovered. It's makes you say WOW.

    The Federal 124 HST +P did well. Just didn't have the weight behind it that the Talon had. It had a full mushroom but no stalk behind it. If I didn't have talons, this would be my round. I wanted to like this new technology better, I was ready to put the old black bullets to rest, I can't do it.

    The 124 +P gold dots were no slouch either, I think you could shoot Gold dots in air and they would expand exactly the same way, everytime. Dots are clones. They expanded about as much as the talon, not quite as much as the HST.
    I would rank it #1 talon, #2 HST, #3 Gold dot. But you can't go wrong with any of them!
     
  2. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    Lots of good info Gator. Noticeably lacking is the DPX and I think you need to include that in just about any test for the P3AT. It is rounder than most, expands more regularly and consistently than other HPs in most of the tests and penetrates most test mediums nearly as well as FMJs.

    -Scott
     

  3. bazookabert

    bazookabert New Member

    34
    Dec 29, 2007
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    I am probably reinventing the wheel here but I was curious about the talon ammo.

    from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_talon

    "Winchester voluntarily pulled the ammunition from the market completely in 2000. The "Ranger SXT" ammunition sold today by Winchester is essentially the same ammunition without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Among shooters, the running joke is that SXT stands for "Same eXact Thing."

    might be something to try (I'm sure someone has it)

    cheers
     
  4. gvaldeg1

    gvaldeg1 New Member

    152
    Feb 8, 2008
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    Great post! I really liked it. If you want to add photos the easy way...upload your photos to one of the free online picture repositories like "Photobucket". You can join and register for free. Just follow their instructions ans upload the photos that you want. The pictures are now resident on the net ans available via "hyperlink". In Photobucket go to the photos hat you want in here and copy the hyperlinks (one at a time)...(if you have a tabbed browser it makes this easier) then, in this site, in the post that you're making, select "Insert Hyperlink" and paste your link between the url symbols.
     
  5. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    Thanks for the photo tip, I will try adding the photos on Monday at work, I think it's interesting the new expansion ammo versus the old early 90's stuff.

    And I would like to try the corbon copper ammo, except right now I have 250 rounds of Hi shok so I can't justify spending anymore on ammo.( this week) ;D
     
  6. bazookabert

    bazookabert New Member

    34
    Dec 29, 2007
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    I cannot say from experience, but the early 90's stuff (black talon) and the new stuff (ranger) seem to be holding their own in stats... maybe not popularity. If it's good enuf for law enforcement, sure is good enuf for me ;)

    :-/ now I just need to find some, and make the decision for myself!

    Bert
     
  7. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    let me try this photo business, sure this is gonna mess up.


    [​IMG][reason]for educational purposes :)[/reason]
     
  8. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    Well I knew I would screw that up. Sorry I am old, don't know much about photos. I tried. When I clicked the hyperlink here it just gave me a {url}{url} thing. Didn't link me up to photobucket or anything like that.
    Oh well. :-[
     
  9. Packer

    Packer Banned

    May 14, 2005
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

      Just paste in the bottom link (IMG code)

    Looks like you need to set the date on your camera. Here you go:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Packer.
     
  10. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    GH - You need to use tags - not [url]

    Go to your photo album and copy the url for one photo only, not the whole album.  Then put that link inside the image tags.  Repeat for additional photos.  I'll go back to your post and edit it to show one photo.  

    [b]You can go back to your post and hit [u]modify[/u] to see what I did. [/b] ;)

    Also this:  Posting pics on ktog:
    [url]http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1115586716[/url]
     
  11. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    if buying the ranger ammo (the "new" black talon), make sure to order ra380t.

    not the other part #. they are not the same.
     
  12. gatorhugger

    gatorhugger Banned

    236
    Jan 19, 2008
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    Well thanks everyone. Nice to see my photos.

    The 2 talons are on the left. The 3 federal Hst are in the middle. And last but never least, 2 gold dots on the right.

    I may have to get another box of the ranger 147 grains T series. I just like the heft to them after they are shot. Just picking them up they feel so much heavier and substantial. Great cartridge. But I guess in hindsight looking at those HST's, Anybody would feel good with those as well.

    The first picture is the hi shok versus the Hydra. I've yet to find a rounder JHP than the old hi shok, if reliability is job one, this is the bullet. I will give the DPX a try. One report I was reading didn't like the expansion on the DPX. I also see where they make the Ranger 380 in 95 grains. Might have to try a box of those in a couple of weeks too.

    I think where this is going to end up at, Golden Sabers. Just a feeling. I want maximum roundnest, and penetration, lastly expansion. I haven't shot the Sabers, but all these report I read say it comes out on Top. If DPX beats it slightly in expansion but doesn't penetrate as deep OR have as round a nose as Sabers, then Sabers would have to win out.

    The abuse the second in line bullets is tremendous on the nose. I have another picture showing a Hydra shok gouged out like I took a knife to it. It has a similar profile to DPX I believe. I don't think that is a good thing, to rely on beat up bullets. It could also explain the accuracy problems I was reading one writer talking about the DPX. That the first shot was good, then he couldn't explain it and appeared mystified that all his other rounds went high left. Shooting beat up bullets will do that.
    Rounder the better is my motto with this gun. Even if Ranger or DPX expands more, I think you go with either Sabers or HI shok or FMJ just for the profile.
     
  13. wheelguy

    wheelguy New Member

    May 4, 2007
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    There is also a flat nose choice. Seems rounded, and may not be dammaged as bad as a HP...
    [​IMG]
     
  14. spence13e

    spence13e New Member

    May 11, 2006
    Kansas
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    what rj said. i've seen "sxt" personal defense ammo around in various stores, but it's all the black box stuff, supreme probably. everything i buy is (apparently) from a LE distributer and comes in tan box marked "winchester ranger SXT", which is invariably the ranger T series (the LE stuff), and is marked as LE ammo. i have, and will continue to buy it as i believe it to be some pretty good stuff and sure beats a buck a round for other SD ammo. (in .40 and .45, haven't bought anything else in it as of yet). last i bought, probably 5 or 6 months ago, .40 was going for $27/50 and .45 was $29/50. went up a lot from july 06, and is probably higher yet, but it still beats a dollar for every trigger pull.

    spence
     
  15. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought New Member

    485
    Jul 23, 2007
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    I stack my carry mag. In the chamber rests a Cor-Bon DPX, top of the mag, Golden Sabre, then DPX, then GS, etc. I like the expansion and speed of the DPX and the expansion and weight (102 grains) of the GS. I just started using the +1 extension on my in-weapon carry magazine, BTW and for what it's worth.

    My extra magazine is all WinRangers. I buy them a fellow named "Jerry" at the gun shows here in Jacksonville (always along the far right wall and sells almost nothing but GLOCK related paraphernalia). When he doesn't have them or I need some more between gun shows I get them at www.ammunitiontogo.com.
     
  16. theheater905

    theheater905 New Member

    236
    Feb 8, 2008
    Re: Range test today- Hydra shok VS HI SHOK, Talon

    Winchester stated that they brought out the Ranger line for LE. When they discontinued the Black Talon the direct replacement was Winchester Ranget T.

    The Ranger T is the same as the Black Talon without the black lubalox coating. The bullet mushrooms and expands with the same shards or petals as the old Talon. It is LE but I was told it is sold to civilians if you can find it.

    The Ranger SXT is a civilian version. The bullet on impact will mushroom and expand but without the shards or petals like the Talon had.
    Hope this is a help.