Range Report Wolf Gun Springs

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by rebootit, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. rebootit

    rebootit New Member

    719
    Mar 25, 2011
    St. Petersburg FL
    Here is a range report on the different springs sold by wolf for the p3at. You guys know, the gun that nobody should buy and Keltec KNOWS there is a problem but refuses to fix it and just keeps selling defective guns ;D

    100 rounds PMC range ammo 13# spring, 100% fire recoil about the same as stock. 15 rounds Hornady Critical Defense 100% recoil still harsh. After cleaning rails 15# spring 100 rounds PMC, 100%, recoil much softer and nice to shoot. 15 rounds Hornady CD 100% recoil softer but stronger than range. Still it felt much nicer to the gun. Again clean rails and run few patches through barrel. 16# spring 100 rounds PMC. 11 FTE. Recoil very soft, felt spongy. Hornady CD 15 rounds 100% cycle. Recoil felt much like range ammo at 15#. Since I had problems with ejection I dropped back to 15# and cleaned rails again. fired 100 more PMC rounds and again had 100% cycle. I'm sticking with the 15# springs. The difference between 15# and stock is like night and day.
    So out of 100 rounds I had 11 FTE with a 16# spring that does not come stock. Using the 13 and 15 pound springs I fired 345 rounds with ZERO problems.
     
  2. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    Nice range report. I've been thinking about getting the Wolff springs for my P3. It shoots 100% right now so I'd kinda hate to mess with it but it sounds like it may be worth a try.

    CJ
     

  3. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    If you could, could you provide the free lenght and the round count.

    when the P3AT springs first became available, I tried the set, and had spring "set" that reduced the spring force after only a few rounds.
    Maybe I got some that had been over tempered  :-/
     
  4. robin.kevin

    robin.kevin Guest

    Thanks for the range report on these springs. Very good information and gives me a mod to do to my p3at. :D
     
  5. rebootit

    rebootit New Member

    719
    Mar 25, 2011
    St. Petersburg FL
    I will pull them and compare to stock this weekend. Didn't think to do that when I was cleaning it. They didn't seem any shorter though when I did it earlier.
     
  6. rebootit

    rebootit New Member

    719
    Mar 25, 2011
    St. Petersburg FL
    I compared the 15# wolf to the stock 11# factory springs. The Wolf springs are now 1/4 inch shorter than factory. Factory springs have fired close to 1000 rounds, Wolf 445. However when I compared the Wolf set to other Wolf springs they all seems to be 1/4 inch shorter. So then I counted the number of coils. Factory coils have 23 and the Wolf 21. this seems to account for the difference in length.
     
  7. rhinokrk

    rhinokrk New Member

    186
    Feb 20, 2008
    I'm a fan of the free replacement springs from KT. :)
     
  8. Possumgravy

    Possumgravy Guest

    Me too. I tried Wolff once in my KT and didn't think they lasted as long as the free KTs. I have used many Wolff springs in many guns, and this is the one time I thought they didn't live up to factory springs.
     
  9. billjohnso20

    billjohnso20 Active Member

    Dec 7, 2008
    Uhm . . . . I don't mean to sound dumb . . . . but . . . . why do you need different/stronger springs? I only use factory springs in my P3AT. It has never failed in any way. The recoil is . . . very mild to me and I can only shoot with one hand. Yes, I'm not recoil sensitive and shoot a PF-9 and a Walther PPS in 40S&W which both have hefty recoil . . . but my soon to be ex-wife who also carries and shoots a Walther PPS in 40S&W, she too says the P3AT is mild on recoil. I guess I'm missing something here---maybe heavy recoil? :-? :-?

    I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. Really, I'm not. I just don't get what the big deal is. IMO, the Bersa Thunder .380ACP has more recoil than the P3AT and the Bersa is an all steel gun. :-[
     
  10. rebootit

    rebootit New Member

    719
    Mar 25, 2011
    St. Petersburg FL
    The gun felt to me as if it is tearing itself apart. Sure I know it is engineered to perform as is. But the manufacturer to assure the gun works as it should for the majority of people has to take in to account things like weaker ammo, limpwristing, people with a weak grip, etc. So they use a spring as light as possible and still function. This is the reason the brass flies 40 feet when ejected. My gun actually had marks where the slide was slamming the stop. With a heavy spring the felt recoil is less, much less. Brass lands about 5 feet away, and the feel of the gun is much improved. Getting it back on target is much faster because it is much easier to control. Just because it comes from the factory one way does not mean it is as good as it can be. For instance with weaker range ammo the 16# spring did not function at 100%. Defense ammo did and it was very smooth. At a15# everything functioned well and it felt the way I expected an auto pistol to feel. Not a sharp metal on metal slam. More of a smooth cycle like my 9mm S&W. Setup the way I have it someone who is prone to limpwristing may have a lot of problems and if it came that way from the factory would be sending it back complaining that it was malfunctioning. Like anything else the factory has to build for the most people.
     
  11. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    Perhaps Wolf has improved their P3AT springs. Their P11 and P40 springs have been fine. We begged them to make P3AT springs for years, complete with email campaigns. When they finally did, we were somewhat disappointed. Long time member Wilson tested some and JFB did some fairly comprehensive testing and measuring. Kel-tec uses very high quality silicon springs. I don't know what Wolf was using. Since gun springs are what they do, you'd think they'd be great springs. However, the testers found that the extra power Wolf Springs wore very quickly and in short order were in fact weaker than stock Kel-tec springs. If you shoot those much at all, you may need to replace them frequently. :-/

    http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1245458048/0#0
     
  12. rebootit

    rebootit New Member

    719
    Mar 25, 2011
    St. Petersburg FL
    I haven't shot a bunch of rounds, 215 total on the 15#. The compared free length to factory springs is just slightly shorter. But they started out that way. There are I believe 2 less coils on the Wolf springs than factory. After I put say another 500 or so rounds I will report if they are still good or have long since bit the dust. If they do die an early death I will be the first to complain to Wolf. I would expect a manufacturer of "gun springs" to make a quality product that is designed to function at least as long as factory if not longer. Especially when the factory will give them to you for free!
     
  13. billjohnso20

    billjohnso20 Active Member

    Dec 7, 2008
    If your P3AT was slamming reward, why didn't you call KT and get a new, free set of springs? Mine has a few thousand rounds through it. There are no impact marks on my gun. If there were, I would order a new, free set of springs from KT and see what my gun did then. If the problem persisted, I would send it back to KT with a detailed letter and photos to illustrate my points. The slide slamming reward is not normal.
     
  14. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    If the slide doesnot hit the end of the frame at full recoil, it would not travel far enough to pick up a round out of the magazine.

    The only thing I liked about the wolffe springs were thier solid lenght was less than the KTs, where the KT's solid lenght was just a tad longer and goes solid just before the slide hits the frame, thus kinking a coil
     
  15. rebootit

    rebootit New Member

    719
    Mar 25, 2011
    St. Petersburg FL
    Exactly. After a few rounds the KT springs were kinked. Looked like they were underpowered or to long. Getting another pair of the same springs would be nothing more than new parts fixing the same problem. Maybe it makes no difference in the function of the gun but the fact remains that I like the feel of the heavy springs. They simply feel better to me and make the weapon more controllable in my hand. KT is an inexpensive gun and if I can make it better for ME by putting a few dollars into it then so be it. The way it comes from the factory works for 99% of the people who own one. But load it with higher pressure defense rounds and push it to the limit on weaker springs and you may have an issue. KT says heavy loads are ok to use but to use them sparingly. Because of cost most people will never put more than a few through the gun. But if your going to rely on those rounds save your butt you better run at least a 100 through the gun to make sure they are reliable and you can control them. If all you have ever shot is range ammo but load your gun with heavy rounds for carry you may be in for a big surprise if the need comes up and your kinked factory springs fail under the load after the first shot is high because you never practiced. I know it's hard to argue with free but sometimes you get what you pay for. That is not a knock on KT. I would love to see the factory offer springs in different weights. If they did I would buy from them no problem.
     
  16. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    as for the KT springs going solid a tad before the side hits the frame was with my older slide where the spring face in the slide was milled flat. I think a change in manufacturing has occured where this face is now drilled (120 degree face). so I do not have the spring available space for those

    the amount of over compression for me was less than 1 wire diameter so a real good fix would be to grind the last half coil to remove the one diameter in solid lenght and allow more face instead of line contact.

    also I have the nylon insert in my slide which reduces the available space. even though the wolf solid is short enough not to need the last half coil ground, I still do just to reduce the contact stress on slide and guide. on the guide end this also reduces the tendancy for the last coil to open up

    and it is always a good ideal to slightly rotate the outer spring when placed in the slide to ensure it is not interleaveved and resting square in its hole
     
  17. rhinokrk

    rhinokrk New Member

    186
    Feb 20, 2008
    Exactly. After a few rounds the KT springs were kinked. Looked like they were underpowered or to long. Getting another pair of the same springs would be nothing more than new parts fixing the same problem. Maybe it makes no difference in the function of the gun but the fact remains that I like the feel of the heavy springs. They simply feel better to me and make the weapon more controllable in my hand. KT is an inexpensive gun and if I can make it better for ME by putting a few dollars into it then so be it. The way it comes from the factory works for 99% of the people who own one. But load it with higher pressure defense rounds and push it to the limit on weaker springs and you may have an issue. KT says heavy loads are ok to use but to use them sparingly. Because of cost most people will never put more than a few through the gun. But if your going to rely on those rounds save your butt you better run at least a 100 through the gun to make sure they are reliable and you can control them. If all you have ever shot is range ammo but load your gun with heavy rounds for carry you may be in for a big surprise if the need comes up and your kinked factory springs fail under the load after the first shot is high because you never practiced. I know it's hard to argue with free but sometimes you get what you pay for. That is not a knock on KT. I would love to see the factory offer springs in different weights. If they did I would buy from them no problem. [/quote]

    I've fired almost a case of Santa Barbara through 2 AT's without issue. "may" is the key word here
     
  18. gazedrop

    gazedrop New Member

    27
    Dec 30, 2010
    Bay Area, CA
    Not trying to resurrect an older thread, but is there any update on the lifespan of the wolf springs?
     
  19. rebootit

    rebootit New Member

    719
    Mar 25, 2011
    St. Petersburg FL
    Well I lost count but at least 6 more boxes of ammo have been through it and the springs look as good as the day I put them in. No issues. The brass is still dropping about 10 feet away instead of 25.