Community for Kel-Tec Shooters banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 2 Keltec 5.56 rifles which have been perfect since day 1, so I didn't hesitate to buy a CMR30 when I got the chance lately. I have had nothing but trouble with it, and I want to know if this is as good as it gets, or if you guys all have working rifles.

It was short cycling. Either a click on empty chamber because it cycled far enough to eject the case and cock the hammer, but not pass the rim of the next round in the mag. It also wouldn't lock open on an empty mag. KT graciously sent me a call tag, and surprisingly quickly I got it back. Service notes say "Replaced Barrel, Updated firing pin, Inspected and test fired without any malfunctions occurring."

So, now it's worse. It almost always fails to eject the spent case, or does the click on empty chamber thing, and never will lock back on an empty mag. I even though maybe I wasn't pulling it into my shoulder firmly enough, so I put the stock against a tree to test. Same result.

I am using Winchester 40grn, as well as CCI and Fiocchi. All the same. I'm getting the feeling that it's a flawed design, and if so please let me know so I can ditch this thing.

I'd like to hear that they all work nearly 100%, and I just have a lemon. That way I at least have hope they can fix it if they offer to take it back a second time.

Thanks
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,056 Posts
[Raises hand]

I hate to tell you mine works great when you are having such trouble. That's hard to hear, but you asked. Mine didn't give me any trouble, even during the break-in period. I was careful not to shoot low power ammo like Winchester Dynapoint, and I loaded the mag very carefully. Those are the CMR-30's biggest weaknesses from what I've read.

There are finally good magazine loaders for the CMR-30. You might try one of those and CCI ammo.

It might need another trip to Kel-Tec, but it's weird that they tested it with no problems and you're having nothing but problems.

The symptoms you report sound like insufficient energy, and if you aren't using low power ammo, then there is probably too much friction or a binding somewhere. Have you tired pushing the rounds out of the magazine by hand? That could help diagnose various magazine related problems, but it sounds like your CMR-30 doesn't have enough energy to eject and cycle back, and isn't even starting to strip a round off the magazine. The failure to eject is a big hint. That's apparently where the energy is going that should be sending the bolt back far enough to feed a round from the magazine, but isn't. I'd try pushing a piece of stuck brass out with a cleaning rod to see how much energy it takes. Is the brass stuck (maybe a too tight chamber), or is the brass loose (maybe tipping enough in the chamber to bind or disengage the ejector).

I assume the ejector isn't damaged. If it was it should have plenty of energy to strip a new round so it'd be trying to feed the new round into a chamber that still had the unejected brass in it.

I'd look at the chamber. Is it cut to spec? Try manually feeding a round and manually ejecting it. It shouldn't be tight, but it shouldn't be too loose. It should barely rattle with a few thousandths of an inch clearance. Does the chamber wall look dirty? I once left too much sizing wax on 223 brass when I reloaded it and it caused a gummy mess in the chamber that prevented the brass from ejecting. Is the chamber surface rough? Particularly problematic would be scratches around the circumference rather than longitudinal scratches. I'd polish the chamber until it's very smooth and apply a thin film of oil. Then I'd try a few different types of ammo to ensure that the problem is the CMR-30.

That's probably not much help, and probably nothing you didn't already know, but it's all I can offer from here.

I have a friend who owns quite a few guns and bought a CMR-30 as his first Kel-Tec. He wasn't impressed with the reliability. I need to drop by there and see if I can troubleshoot it for him. I'll try CCI or Hornady ammo in a properly loaded mag as the first step of diagnosing his problems. Start with the easy and most likely items first.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
[Raises hand]

I hate to tell you mine works great when you are having such trouble. That's hard to hear, but you asked. Mine didn't give me any trouble, even during the break-in period.
No, I'm glad to hear it. I was getting the impression the CMR is just a poor design. I take it .22wmr semi autos are tricky to get right, and I'm wondering if KelTec took a swing and missed. If most everyone's CMR works fine, that gives me hope.

I feel like I should be able to buy any commercial 40+ grain ammo, and that I should be able to fully load a magazine and expect it to work most every time. It's not a CMR24 after all. But magazines aside, the most basic test of putting in a single round and having it not eject and/or not lock the bolt back says a lot.

I did clean the chamber with solvent and brush, with no effect. I do see some barely noticeable rings around the circumference of the chamber.

I contacted them about it. I'll update the thread if anyone is interested.

Thank you for the insight!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,056 Posts
I wouldn't recommend downloading the magazine to make it work, other than maybe as part of some troubleshooting exercise. I do recommend loading the magazine properly and that's not easy on the CMR-30. The magazine is tricky to load correctly. Chad made a good video and it's on Kel-Tec's YouTube channel, but I'd recommend getting one of the GOOD mag loaders for the PMR-30 and CMR-30 magazines, and not one of the simple push down case stomper designs.

I'd still recommend pushing a round into the chamber, testing the fit and removing it by hand to get a literal feel for the static loading and ejection. Of course, the brass will be expanded after shooting and more difficult to eject. I'd polish those barely noticeable rings out of the chamber wall.

As a last resort, you could call Kel-Tec technical support. They may have other suggestions, and maybe they can tell you what magic ammo they're shooting that functions properly in your CMR-30. Worst case, another trip back to Kel-Tec. Be sure to include a concise letter telling them the problems you're experiencing. Don't rely on them making notes from the phone call and associating those notes with your CMR-30 when it arrives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
I recently purchased a cmr 30 and the first trip to the range was not good. I ran 3 boxes of CCI 40 grain through it and it failed to feed at least 4 times on every magazine. I took it home cleaned and lubed. 2nd range trip I ran 4 boxes of Hornady critical defense 45 go with out a hiccup. Then I ran 3 boxes of CCI 40 gr with out a hiccup. I just think the gun needed to b broken in and the 45 gr did the job. I also used the nest style speed loader.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Well mine had a failure on it’s first trip, after the first few rounds the carrier got stuck cause the bolt worked loose from the carrier. Had to send it back to KT. Within 24 hours of opening at KT they sent me a shipping label and in less than three weeks it was back. And has run without issue since. Mostly CCI TNT green and HP +v, some Armscor as well.

Now I’ve had a PMR for a few years before the CMR so I had already mastered loading the mags. While the PMR took a lot of break in, despite it’s out of the box failure, the CMR has run well with any ammo I’ve tried.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Good to hear, thanks. It's nice to know that mine seems to have a flaw which can be fixed. I let them know it was still not working, and was told a FedEx call tag was coming within a few business days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,920 Posts
Raise Hand

My CMR has only failed when I let someone else load the mags. Same trouble I had at first with my PMR. It is vert accurate and my grandsons can hit a 18 inch square steel plate easily at 175 yards with open sights. YMMV :D:D:D

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
It is everything as promised and more. I was impressed with it's penetration of hardwood at distance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
I did get an occasional ejection issue with mine but it basically ran smoothly right out of the box using 40gr ammo. I used a flex hone to polish the chamber and have had no issues since.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
I was an early adapter to the CMR30. Mine has a SN below 200. I don't think that it will ever be reliable enough to be anything beyond a "range novelty". I have never fired it without a suppressor. Although that means that you get more unburned powder back inside the action, the added back pressure should help it cycle. It is very accurate. I have a Ruger bolt gun in 22 WNR, and the CMR30 is as accurate as the bolt gun at 100 yards. My CMR30 ran perfectly for about 300 rounds, then the trigger mechanism broke. When I got it back from KelTec the trigger worked, but it wouldn't feed. I couldn't get a full magazine through it before it bent a cartridge trying to get it past the feed ramp. Another trip to KelTec fixed that problem. Somewhere in there the magazine springs started failing. They would corrode and disintegrate inside the magazine (Yes. Stored in a climate controlled environment.) I went through two sets of magazine springs before KelTec started making them stronger and out of stainless steel wire. That problem seems to be solved, although getting 30 rounds in the magazine doesn't seem possible with the new springs. Right after the rifle came back from KelTec with the feed problem, the bolt hold open broke. I did talk KelTec into sending me a replacement part so I didn't have to ship the rifle to them, again. I have discovered that it likes to be kept really clean. That means detail stripping it and cleaning everything every couple of hundred rounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My CMR went back to Cocoa for the second time, and has been there a week or so. I will update this thread with results when I get it back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Fedex brought the rifle back for the second time earlier this afternoon. It's 100% failure rate this time. For reference, I made a quick youtube video to send to Keltec. You guys are welcome to have a look.

The first time, they replaced the barrel. This time they replaced the barrel trunnion and bolt assembly, and said they test fired 110 rounds with no malfunctions occurring.

I'm ready to ditch it for whatever I can get for it, but I'd feel guilty selling it to some poor sucker.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I stopped by Academy and bought a box of CCI 40 grain, the same ammo Keltec says they fired 50 flawless rounds of. It failed every shot. The CCI ammo did have a bit more power, it ejected the empty case instead of jamming on it, but didn't drive the bolt back far enough to pass the rear of the magazine so it could catch a live round. This is the exact same problem I have had since day 1. It's not the magazine. It won't lock open when a single round is fired to empty.

I'm calling Monday. Honest question.. which is more likely?

1. They knew it wasn't fixed but said it was (twice).

2. It works perfectly in Florida, but not at all in Oklahoma.

Also: The extractor will hardly pull a live round from the chamber now, but it's not stuck. Gravity and a fingernail will easily flick it out. It's like it gets worse every time they mess with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Get some CCI maxi mag ammo. The Winchester ammo is the problem.
Yes, you could hear the underpowered ammo. It went poof vs. bang. One other suggestion, I use transmission fluid to oil the bolt and way, that loosens the action for me quite a bit. I have no problems with the 30grn rounds, though I don't recommend that given the feedback I've seen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Thank you turning me on to flex-hone. Hit mine with 400 then an 800 yesterday and the results at the range were fantastic. 400 round or so w/o failure; 75 Armscore 40gr I ran through the gun 3x (testing feeding then shooting) and was fairly generous in how deformed I let the lead get with the ammo I loaded and shot. Shot 75 Hornady 45gr and the rest was bulk Federal 50gr. Before this is be lucky to get to 100rnd before a failure, and nearly every Armscor mag would have a jam or two.

Vast improvement over my last ~1000 rounds. Time will tell if the issue is fixed for good, but I am now optimistic.


I did get an occasional ejection issue with mine but it basically ran smoothly right out of the box using 40gr ammo. I used a flex hone to polish the chamber and have had no issues since.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I called Keltec again this morning. They want it back a third time. I'd have the option to be sent a new gun or maybe a refund if I have an invoice.

I think it would probably be wise to just accept a refund. I'm accustomed to guns (other Keltecs as well) that work fine without having to hone the chamber on a new rifle, or select which brand of new factory ammo it refuses to function with. BTW, see above- ammo isn't the issue in this case.

And even though customer service has been fast and helpful, I'm pretty put off by gunsmith notes claiming they fired 110 rounds without a problem when actually it won't cycle one single round.

KT Customer service: Excellent
KT Repair: Highly Suspect
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I called Keltec again this morning. They want it back a third time. I'd have the option to be sent a new gun or maybe a refund if I have an invoice.
......
KT Customer service: Excellent
KT Repair: Highly Suspect
I would likely go for the refund after your experience as well. I agree with the sentiment that this should not be needed. Though Kel-Tec does have a reputation for 'polish it yourself' internals.

For what it is worth, I've shoot subsonic ammo in mine and it would not fully cycle. It did however extract without issue and feed a round after pulling on the charging handle. At a minimum it looks like you have an extractor issue. Then again I would expect a round to pick up and the jam the gun if it was just an extractor issue, so you are having feed / cycling issues as well... That could be under powered ammo, but looks like you roles that out...
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top