[sfmccormick]

Hello fellow PMR-30 owners. I purchased my PMR a little over a year ago, but due to the scarcity and cost of the ammo, haven't shot it that much until this spring (estimated 200 - 300 rds so far). My pistol functions well with a variety of Hornady, Federal and CCI ammo. There were a few failures to feed in the first 100 rounds, but almost none since.

When firing the pistol, it ejects the empties strongly 10-15 feet to the right and sometimes slightly rearward. The empty casehead shows a good hit with the firing pin at 12 o'clock and a slight mark at from the ejector at 8 o'clock. No apparent problems with extraction or ejection are evident to me during firing.

The odd thing occurs during manual extraction/ejection of a loaded round. When I pull the slide back, the round is extracted and dumped on top of the magazine. It doesn't seem to matter if I pull the slide back fast or slow, nor whether the pistol is clean or dirty. I have tried manual extraction of a spent round a couple of times and it does the same thing. It appears during manual extraction that the loaded or spent round never makes it to the ejector before it is dropped by the extractors. The round is pulled completely free of the chamber. I don't see any problems obvious to me when I examine the extractors.

I was hoping that those with more experience than I could tell me whether this is normal with the PMR and if not, what the problem and solution might be. I have owned and fired a lot of semiautomatic pistols over the years and never seen this happen in any of them. Any help would be appreciated - Steve

 

[haugrdr]

Have you read the owners manual for your PMR-30?

Link for owners manual

It clearly states...

"To safely unload the firearm, sweep the safety lever up for “safe”. Remove the empty
magazine by grabbing the bottom of the magazine and the magazine catch with your thumb
and pointer finger. Squeeze the mag catch and pull the magazine out in one motion. Grab
the slide cover and pull and hold it all the way back in one fast motion to eject the round in
the chamber. While holding the slide back, use your thumb to slide and hold the slide stop
button up. Now slowly release the slide and it should be held open by the slide stop.
Visually inspect the chamber to be sure it is empty. To close the slide, pull back the slide
and SLOWLY follow it forward. It is not recommended that you release the slide to
slam closed on an empty chamber, as this puts extra stress on the slide and barrel
where they contact.
To unload a full or partially full magazine, use a cartridge or small tool to push each round
forward and out of the magazine. Continue until all rounds are pushed out."


1-Remove the slide.

2-Rack the slide to eject the last round.

3-Empty the magazine using a tool.

It doesn't seem to say it's OK to rack and manually eject all of the rounds out of the magazine.

 

[sfmccormick]

haugrdr,

Thanks for the reply, but not sure you understand my question. To answer yours, yes, I have read the owners manual. I was not trying to "to rack and manually eject all of the rounds out of the magazine". In fact, I was not trying to unload the magazine at all, except to the extent of manually moving one fresh round from the magazine into the chamber.

My question was about the manual extraction/ejection of a live round (or even a spent, but unejected round) from the chamber, not about emptying the magazine. In every semiautomatic pistol I have ever shot, pulling the slide back on a loaded chamber extracts the round and ejects it out the side to make way for a new round from the magazine to be loaded into the chamber. My PMR seems to be extracting the round, but not ejecting it. The round is left laying loose on top of the magazine. I am curious if others have experienced this, what was the cause and what was the solution.

Not ejecting the round to the side would cause a jam when you let loose of the slide and the slide attempts to push a new round into the chamber while the old round is still in the way. Think dud round or practicing a malfunction drill. Jam could be prevented by tilting the pistol sideways to dump loose round before letting the slide go, but not the best solution, in my opinion.

 

[sfmccormick]

From the lack of replies, I guess this is not a common problem. I would appreciate it if someone would manually cycle a couple of rounds from a loaded magazine to see if the pistol is tossing the loaded round away from the ejection port or if the round gets dumped on top of the magazine. Thanks

 

[kendive]

I have done this maybe ejected around 10 - 15 live rounds just to test function of the PMR-30. You can do this with the (Safety On) Mine all ejected fine and throw the round out and onto the floor.

If you go slow with pulling the slide back yes it will just dump the round and leave it in the chamber. I do believe this will happen with any auto firearm.

But that's just my opinion... I could be wrong!!!



.

 

[sfmccormick]

Kendive,

Thanks for the reply and checking the function of your PMR. My guess is that one or both of the extractors is a little off or maybe the extractor spring is weak. I'll contact KT customer service and see what they suggest.

 

[buzzsaw]

sfmccormack,

Welcome to KTOG!

If your extractors are engaging the grooves in the barrel hood, they are probably within spec. If there is built up powder residue under them, they might not grip the rim adequately. I don't have mine with me, but would think that the extractors would still be gripping the round until it hits the ejector. This is what makes them turn loose. That being said, I have seen rimfire pistols that have completely ineffectual extractors, in that hand cycling will leave the round in the chamber, yet they function 100% when fired. In a blowback action, you don't really need extractors, except for manual unloading, since the pressure pins the case head to the bolt face and blows the case out of the chamber. Although the PMR is not a pure blowback action, there is an element of blowback there.

I have to hand cycle mine quite smartly to get it to eject. If I don't, it behaves like yours. Mine has more problems getting the round into the chamber, especially with lighter loads like Armscor, which sometimes short-strokes, either failing to strip a round, or stopping with it partially in the chamber.

buzzsaw

 

[AJ_Dual]

The ejector bar is long and flat, because of the long narrow nature of the .22mag case. And it's very close to the side of the feed area/magazine lips, so unless it's coming out fast, like when you gently retract the slide/cover, it's not going to hit it or can just "bump" over it and slide past it.

So it's not going to hit and spin the cartridge case out unless it's coming out at full velocity when it's cycling while fired, or your own hand-cycling is more vigorous.

Nothing's wrong.

 

[posthole]

I carry mine unloaded so after every use I invert it and grab the slide over the port with my left hand and slowly rack it. The chambered round plops into my hand and is stuck back in the mag and off I go.

 

[sfmccormick]

I sent an email yo KelTec regarding the manual ejection problem I was having with my PMR, but ended up calling them after a week with no reply. I explained the problem to "Tim" who agreed the extractors might be off, but he didn't seem to think it too serious and didn't seem too interested in figuring it out. He said they would examine the pistol and repair it if necessary, if I paid to send it to them. He would not send me the parts to fix it myself, but said I could buy them if I wished. Needless to say, I am not impressed with their customer service or their lifetime guarantee.

I decided to order the extractors, spring and axis pins, pay the exorbitant shipping and fix it myself rather than pay to send the gun in with no guarantee they would even take a serious look at it. I received the parts today. I attached a picture showing the new extractors on the left and the old extractors on the right. Looks like they changed the shape of the extractors a little. The finish on the old left extractor is almost completely gone on one side.

I don't know if was the new shape, defective left extractor or the new spring, but with the new parts installed, the PMR now functions like it should and manually ejects live rounds clear of the pistol. I also fired about 20 rounds through it and it ejects empties flawlessly.

Thanks for all the replies - Steve

 

[rogue66]

Thanks for posting this! I'm having the same problem with an otherwise great gun. I've ordered my replacement parts and look forward to fixing this problem.

Mine will eject fine during live fire tests with Maxi Mag 40G, but the extractors will not work when manually trying to eject a round. Mine will let go about halfway out, and well before the ejector.

If you watch this video, one of his guns works as it should, and the other one does what mine (and many others) do. He sent his in 4-5 times and it's finally fixed.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubPwoVrdss"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JubPwoVrdss[/ame]


Thanks again for posting the picture!

 

[sfmccormick]

Glad to do it. Let us know how your repair goes and if you figure out exactly what is causing your extractors to malfunction

 

[rogue66]

Will do. Parts are due in on Tuesday!

 

[rogue66]

Took mine apart tonight to look at the extractors. They are the same as your old one's, so I am confident the new one's will fix my problem as well. I really don't see anything wrong with the old one's and the spring tension seems great, but they just won't hold on long enough to eject.

I have a friend that just bought one and tested it last night. Same exact problem.

Hard to believe this made it past QC.

 

[rogue66]

Installed the new extractors and spring - still will not hold onto the round long enough to make it to the ejector. It does pull it a little farther with the new one's, maybe 3/4 of the way instead of 1/2 way, but it still drops it.

I can snap a round into the extractors manually and they hold tight (with an audible click), so they seem to be doing the job. Aggravating...

So, I called KelTec and talk with tech support. According to the tech I spoke with, this is not a problem as long as it fires and ejects properly. They could care less if it does or does not eject manually.

After researching this problem and working on mine, it seems the anomaly is if it DOES eject manually, lol.

 

[850sub]

Installed the new extractors and spring - still will not hold onto the round long enough to make it to the ejector. It does pull it a little farther with the new one's, maybe 3/4 of the way instead of 1/2 way, but it still drops it.

I can snap a round into the extractors manually and they hold tight (with an audible click), so they seem to be doing the job. Aggravating...

So, I called KelTec and talk with tech support. According to the tech I spoke with, this is not a problem as long as it fires and ejects properly. They could care less if it does or does not eject manually.

After researching this problem and working on mine, it seems the anomaly is if it DOES eject manually, lol.

So your ejection problem wasn't when actually firing the firearm?

 

[rogue66]

Correct, it fires and ejects fine with the CCI 40 grains

 

[sfmccormick]

Installed the new extractors and spring - still will not hold onto the round long enough to make it to the ejector. It does pull it a little farther with the new one's, maybe 3/4 of the way instead of 1/2 way, but it still drops it.

I can snap a round into the extractors manually and they hold tight (with an audible click), so they seem to be doing the job. Aggravating...

So, I called KelTec and talk with tech support. According to the tech I spoke with, this is not a problem as long as it fires and ejects properly. They could care less if it does or does not eject manually.

After researching this problem and working on mine, it seems the anomaly is if it DOES eject manually, lol.

From the responses I got to my original request on this forum for info on this problem, I think you might be correct regarding it being an anomaly for this pistol to eject manually. But I did get mine to operate correctly after replacing the extractors and spring, so I doubt the pistol was deliberately designed to not manually eject a loaded round correctly.

Maybe it is a quality control problem. Maybe it is a design flaw. I do not know the answer. I do know that a pistol with extractors that dump a loaded round on top of the magazine before it even gets to the ejector has a problem. I have owned dozens of pistols over the past decades, including two other KelTecs and I never had one that did that, other than with a broken extractor or ejector.

Some, including the tech I talked to and the one you talked to, seem unconcerned about this problem, but IMHO they are wrong. I realize it may not be common, but some people use this pistol for personal defense. Others have it in an emergency bag for when/if everything goes bad. In every defensive pistol course I have attended or given, the correct response when encountering a dud round (a not uncommon problem with a rimfire round) during a course of fire is to ensure the magazine is fully seated, rack the slide and reengage the threat. This is garden variety malfunction drill training and will likely cause an even worse situation (jam with 2 rounds in the ejection port) in a pistol that does not correctly eject a loaded round. At minimum, you will then have to strip the magazine, get those 2 jammed rounds clear under stress, reinsert and seat the magazine, rack the slide and reengage the threat, all assuming you are not dead yet.

If it was my pistol and I couldn't fix it or get it fixed to manually eject a round correctly, I'd get rid of it - Steve.

 

[rogue66]

I agree with you, Steve. I'm irritated as hell, especially since I was sure the new design of the extractors would fix the problem. I'm going to put another 200 rounds through it this weekend and then decide if I am going to send it back to KelTec.

 

[850sub]

I think responses #2, and #8 clearly spell it out for you.