Putting a hurt on Ruger LCP sales

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Freeman1952, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. Freeman1952

    Freeman1952 New Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    My latest fascination with the idea of an easily pocketable handgun such as the P3AT, LCP, Kahr, etc., has made me realize that Kel-Tec could certainly put a hurt on Ruger LCP sales in those states that require a fired shell casing, if they would only provide one. However, they do not seem to be amenable to that idea. Is there more to providing a fired shell casing than meets the eye, i.e. some sort of notarized statement that the casing came from a particular weapon, or does Kel-Tec refuse to send one "just 'cuz"?
  2. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    huh? I live in a state that requires the fired shell casings, and i have never had a problem getting a KT. On the spot even....

    maybe they are doing them before hand, but I do not think so.....

  3. ktwm

    ktwm Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2004
    I believe the distributors do the fired caseing when they know they are going to a state that requires it....no need in wasting ammo if the case isn't needed.
  4. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    I call foul on that, if you were not trying to make a joke anyway. I thought KT test fired every weapon before it left the shop? Is that not so? And if it is so, why not throw that casing in the box?

  5. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    i call foul because I believe if the cases are not obtained from the factory with the weapon, at least in NYS, the weapon needs to be fire by COBIS by the NYS Police and the results certified.

    I do not believe the distributor can legally do that, and I have never known that my guns are held for COBIS testing.....I get them pretty quickly....
  6. shep854

    shep854 Well-Known Member

    Feb 27, 2006
    Birmingham, AL
    Here in Alabama, the fired case is not required, but I have bought guns with a case included. I assumed as Scott mentioned, that it is standard procedure for some companies. Sorry, I don't remember which makes had a case with the gun.
  7. Freeman1952

    Freeman1952 New Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Apparently not a cut and dry case. I live in Maryland and all of the dealers that I have approached for a new Kel-Tec tell me "no-go" because they can't get a casing (ironically, most Kel-Tec models are on the State Police approved list); dealers I have approached in Virginia and Delaware are willing to sell and ship, but again, no casing provided. I have even e-mailed sellers on Gunbroker.com and they tell me that there is no shell casing included with their offering. Shell casings are not required for used weapons, apparently, but I have never been comfortable relying on a weapon with whose history I am not familiar. I appreciate the comments, however.
  8. Apiarian

    Apiarian New Member

    Jan 19, 2005
    When KT repaired (read replaced) my PF9 there was a fired case in the box. It could just be their way of proving they tested the gun.
  9. pedro

    pedro New Member

    May 28, 2008
    My H&K USP came with a spent casing in the box. I've never seen it with any other gun I've bought.
  10. Checker4Tix

    Checker4Tix Well-Known Member

    Aug 6, 2007
    I don't recall any of my KT's coming with a spend shell casing. All my Glocks and my J-frame came with one.

    Now, can anyone explain to me the point in including the casing. Is it just "proof" that the gun was fired once safely? Couldn't any old casing be tossed in to get around that? Sounds like just another dumb rule the anti's like that really doesn't help a thing.
  11. Wes_Janson

    Wes_Janson New Member

    Mar 5, 2007
    Many modern semi-autos include a small, sealed paper packet with an empty shell casing. The technician's name and the info is printed on the packet, and it's sealed at the factory.

    From handling bazillions of H&Ks, I can tell you that the dude who does it at their factory is named Morlock.
  12. pedro

    pedro New Member

    May 28, 2008

    Sure enough, Morlock test fired mine.   :cool:

  13. adamsesq

    adamsesq New Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    Some jurisdictions keep that shell casing when you license your weapon with them. It is their way of later tracking that weapon if it is used in a crime. Because we all know that you can't change the barrel or firing pin once your weapon has been fired once.

  14. JFB

    JFB New Member

    Jul 25, 2005
    And NO ONE would ever remove rough machining marks from a chamber or breach face ;D ;D

    AND I still don't understand the OP's title :-?
  15. virtual-rj

    virtual-rj New Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    Houston, TX
    who me? storm lake? lone wolf? what do they make? race cars? :cool:
  16. Freeman1952

    Freeman1952 New Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    It was my understanding that the spent shell casing was an attempt to ensure continued revolver sales ;). To date the state of Maryland has used a spent shell casing to "solve" one crime, and that was purely by accident. However, once the government has perfected laser micro-etching of the gun's serial number on the firing pin, your social security number (which is not to be used as a means of identification...it says so right on the card) on the shell casing, and your picture on the back of the bullet (not to mention registration of every round you purchase and the super-efficient government entity to maintain the data), people will think twice before they club their assailant/victim to death.
  17. PshootR

    PshootR Banned

    Apr 1, 2005
    Maybe "Morlock" is just a contraction of "More Glock". ;D
  18. And none of us have ever seen a chipped extractor.

    LAMO laws... and I have previously posted a simple DIY work around on the laser etched bullet bases.

    JFB- I think the implication was that if Kel-Tec would supply an empty casing, then KT's would out pace the sales of Ruger in those states that require the spent case.

    What the OP may not have been thinking was that SALES of Kel-Tec are outpacing production, so Kel-Tec does not need to play by rules of states that have ANTI laws.
  19. roland45

    roland45 New Member

    May 16, 2008
    Thank God I live in the great commonwealth of Pennsylvania,
    no jumping through hoops, no spent casing, just plunk down $280. hard earned
    cash, fill out the paper work, let the FFL dealer make the call, and walk out with the P3AT in my pocket.
    Besides, I would think any lawyer worth his salt would be able to have this kind of evidence thrown out
    on the grounds of  the "lack of chain of custody".

    "The technician's name (not the officers name?, what about the federal, state, or local government that pays their salary,  and badge # and title and signature?) and the info is printed on the packet, and it's sealed at the factory."  

    If the spent case and weapon are not witnessed and  verified by a LEO and logged as such for evidence, there has been a gross "lack in the chain of custody".
    If I did live in a communist city or state that mandated a spent casing must accommodate the weapon from the manufacture, then I would start making phone calls to my city or state law makers with some serious questions.
    Or, like everyone in DC that didn’t keep their guns empty and not broken down, I would let the state make me a criminal.  
    Excuse the rantings of some one who loves his freedoms, state and country.
  20. Freeman1952

    Freeman1952 New Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    To clarify things: I am fully aware that Kel-Tec sales outpace their production. However, I am confident that if I were to order a P3AT and an LCP at the same time, the P3 would show up long before the Ruger. It seems that Ruger is taking them back in at about the same rate they are shipping them out. Furthermore, one would think that they would have made sure that the gremlins that Kel-Tec has dealt with would have been eliminated; instead it appears that they are emulating the entire Kel-Tec experience.
    As far as dealing with "antis" and grateful people such as Roland45, that is only jealous talk. Maryland has a police force that is unmatched in all of the U.S. (except perhaps California), for they are capable of protecting you and being by your side in an instant, 24/7/365, negating the NEED for self-defense on the part of the everyday citizen. Ask any cop or political figure around here.