[BillK]

What are the pros & cons of having a ported P3AT? I found this site today (http://www.apwcogan.com/KelTec.htm) but it only mentions the pro of reduced muzzel flip no cons. What do you believe are ALL the pros & cons of porting a SD handgun and the P3AT in particular.

Thanks ...

 

[cclem700]

I really like ported weapons when I can't find my cigarette lighter

 

[adamsesq]

EVERYONE knows that ported weapons send out such a fire ball into your face that you can't see after firing them at night and will burn off not only your clothing and that of the person next to you at the range. Hot gasses will destroy your eyeballs too.

From what I have been able to sumarize from reading lots about this is that it varies greatly from weapon to weapon and those who have them ported the P3AT like it although it is really hard to measure whether there is a benefit or not. But about the only real drawback is a lighter wallet.

Jocko is our resident expert on ported p3ats if I recall correctly.

-Scott

 

[tommy51s]

The reduced muzzle velocity is something to think about. The .380 out of a <3" barrel isn't the hottest round out there to start with. The site estimates 8% reduction in velocity for misc weapons, and probaly most of those have longer barrels, so that would be at least 72fps down from 900. My 2 cents.

 

[Syndil]

Excellent thread on porting here:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1193240812

The short version is that the muzzle blast from the port does not have any more of a detrimental effect on your night vision than the blast from the barrel. Yes, you lose a few FPS, but it may also mean that you can fire more bullets--and keep them on target--faster than you could without porting.

 

[Dan-O]

I personally think it is kind of ridiculous to port an already light recoiled pistol. Go out and rent yourself a snubbie .357 and shoot some .357 rounds through it. Then shoot your p38t. Nuff said.

This link has the pros and cons.

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/port.pdf

No offense to AP Gowan, or whatever his name is, but they are in the gunsmithing business. Of course they are only going to say positive things to say about it, cause they want to work on your gun, and charge you for it.

 

[Syndil]

I personally think it is kind of ridiculous to port an already light recoiled pistol.

There are many, many people who would tell you that the P3-AT is not a light-recoiled pistol. If you can handle the recoil from a .357 snubby good for you, but that is not really helpful for those who can't. Porting is an option, and it is a viable one for those that can truly benefit from it. From the article you just linked to:

For those with weak or damaged wrists, porting could be a wonderful solution. Also, those who highly value and desire the ability to deliver multiple shots as quickly as possible should seriously consider a ported gun.

 

[BillK]

Thanks for those two links - informative stuff and pretty much gives me all the pros and cons to consider. Seems to me like yet another reason to have more than one P3AT, hey you've got to have a ported one just to find out for yourself.

 

[Dan-O]

Syndil,

I could not agree with you more.  If you have medical issues, or if you do indeed find the p38t's recoil too harsh, porting would be a good option for you.  I shoot a lot of short barreled .45 guns and other calibers that have much more felt recoil in my opinion than the p38t, and that could probably get more out of a port job, than the little p38t.

Guess we can all agree to disagree, which would also apply to most of the opinions on this bb. Cheers.

 

[adamsesq]

...than the little p38t.

Dan-O, just to clarify that we are talking about the same gun, I assume you mean the P3AT?

-Scott

 

[praetorian]

I live by the moto, training not toys. Take the cash you would put into grips/lasers/porting and such and just buy ammo and shoot more. I feel vary strongly you will benefit more from that. I have competed and see ALOT of people who run a crap tone of gadets on thier pistols. Porting lasers lights whole nine yards. I have also beaten these people in compition with a standard no add ons Glock 30(thats the sub compact .45). Why can i do this? i simply shoot more, even if im not having a good day or not grouping trigger time is still trigger time. Always remeber, the person makes the weapon, not the other way around.

 

[onefunzr2]

Porting has more of an effect with powerful handguns and rifles. It has to do with the velocity of the exhaust gases. You would be $$$ ahead by adding more weight to your P3-AT. Weight will reduce recoil. So will shooting a lighter weight bullet, such as the 88gr Barnes bullet in the Cor-Bon DPX ammo.

But those suggestions don't have the 'WOW' effect of holes in your barrel and a big oval slot in the top of your slide to show off at the range or Sunday BBQ.

 

[sharpetop]

Hi BillK!

There is a guy from this board called jocko who, I believe, had his P3AT ported by apwcogan. He isn't on here as often as he used to be but still checks in once in a while. You may want to try the search function for his old posts.

 

[cclem700]

Porting has more of an effect with powerful handguns and rifles.  It has to do with the velocity of the exhaust gases.  You would be $$$ ahead by adding more weight to your P3-AT.  Weight will reduce recoil.  So will shooting a lighter weight bullet, such as the 88gr Barnes bullet in the Cor-Bon DPX ammo.

But those suggestions don't have the 'WOW' effect of holes in your barrel and a big oval slot in the top of your slide to show off at the range or Sunday BBQ.

Don't be fooled by the bullet weight alone....  The powrball I have is 70 grain (lighter than the 80 grain DPX) and has a heck of a lot more felt recoil....  I haven't shot a ported P3AT but plan to have mine ported soon by a fairly local fella(who I won't mention :-X)  I have not heard anything negative about it from anyone that actually OWNS a ported 3AT

 

[jfh]

Before one ports a handgun running a low-pressure cartridge like a .380 ACP, you really ought to consider the effect on velocity.   If would seem to me that the velocity could drop below ANY velocity needed for HP expansion.  Of course, if you do not plan on shooting JHPs or carry only LRNs or FMJs in it for self-defense, it matters a bit less.

About fifteen years ago I added a compensator to a Colt .380 GM as part of a project to try to set up IPSC-type pistols for kids.  It removed ALL muzzle flip, a chunk of recoil--and you could almost see the bullet travelling down range.  I abandoned the project shortly after this, so I can't add much more to this--I never did do chrono testing on it.

The parallel issue is the one of felt recoil, of course. This year, I've been shooting j-frames a lot--about 5000-6000 rounds of loads in both .38 Spl and .357 cases, developing reloads that are 'replicas' of the Gold Dot Short Barrel 38+P load.  Ballistically speaking, that's a 135-grain bullet running at about 900 fps out of a 2" barrel.  

Shot through a 640 (SS, 24 oz), that load started out as barely tolerable to me, and intolerable in a 340 (Scandium, 13.3 oz).  By working my way up with lighter reloads, it now is more-than-tolerable in either revolver, and my hand is toughened enough so that I can meet my basic carry / defense criteria:  I can shoot a cylinderfull (5 rounds) rapid fire, reload and shoot another cylinderfull--and still be able to reload.  

I bought my P3AT about 3/4 of the way through my 38+P development project, and I have to say I find shooting it a non-event WRT recoil, no matter what cartridge I've shot so far.  These rounds are all factory rounds from about fifteen years ago--95 gr. FMJs, Hornady XTPs, that kind of thing.  

However, if the purpose of porting your P3AT is to have a sexy BBQ gun, have at it.  

Jim H.

 

[Megatron]

I've heard porting also increases the volume of the muzzle blast. Porting might damage your ears more in a defensive shooting.

 

[Guest]

I would port my B. B. gun, if possable

seriously, if u want to know more PM me

 

[adamsesq]

Oh man Jocko, I was hoping you would expound a bit more than that, you are the absolute expert around here on Ported P3ATs! When I say you posted last in this thread I was about to suggest it get closed as "He Has Spoken..." But then I saw no details :'(

-Scott

 

[nicneufeld]

One thing that would be potentially valuable, if it has not been done, would be to chronograph, side by side, a ported and non-ported P3AT with common defensive loads. Basically, to get some hard data on lost velocity. .380 is such a 'borderline' caliber by most people's judgment anyway, that things like a loss of fps become more important. And running some actual non-partisan tests to show data would be helpful.

I think this tends to be a more combative topic because people are often vested in their side...the people who have not ported feel obliged to justify why they should not incur the expense to do so, and those who have ported have invested the money and their gun in it, and are more obliged to talk about its pros.

I'd think simple measurement would be useful...numbers on muzzle velocity, and I wonder, do they have handgun rests that can gauge force of recoil? That'd be a neat instrument to invent, if not. And lastly, you could measure the flash, at night, in lux or footcandles, from the perspective immediately behind, and over the gun (to simulate shooting with arm outstretched, and shooting from the hip).

Now, I don't have the equipment or the guns to do this, but it'd be nice to argue about theory less and simply have a good bit of data to consider.

 

[BillK]

I think the laws of physics would require the recoil to remain the same. Muzzel flip should be less though.