[Guest]

Hello everyone-

I just recently purchased a new P3AT Hard Chrome #J7xx and I love it. Now I want to get a P11 and a Sub 2000. These things are a addictive!

Anyway, I am a total newbie, but I have been lurking here for a while. I have a learned a lot from this forum. Thanks everyone!

Before firing my P3AT, I polished the feedramp until it looked like a mirror, smoothed out the plastic flashing on the grip and trigger, added finger extensions to my magazines, and installed a Hogue Handall Jr.

Took it to the range and ran 100 rounds of Sellier and Bellot FMJ through it. It functioned Flawlessly! Kept my wrist locked and had no FTF, FTE etc.

After cleaning the gun up I noticed that around the recoil guide rod hole there was the slightest lip starting to form. just barely enough to catch my fingernail on.

Yesterday, I decided to call Kel Tec about the slide. Even though the gun is currently functioning fine, it was bothering me knowing where this was headed (Yeah,Yeah I am really Obsessive Compulsive too! ;D). It feels like the gun is wounded or something. Not confidence inspiring or what ever you want to call it.  The woman I talked to on the phone at Kel Tec said she had never heard of "peening" nor anything similar to what I was describing. Next, she puts me on hold and supposedly talks to a Gunsmith there at Kel Tec (her words) and they were not familiar with "peening" either. I mentioned the longer recoil guide rod that some had received and they had not heard of that either.  

I decided to go ahead and order another HC slide and put it on my credit card until I return the old one. They were really easy about this and told me that if I was not happy with the new one I could send it back too.

With all of that said (sorry), here is my question:

The people with P3ATs that don't have peening issues, are their slides not paper thin where the recoil guide rod hole is?

Now I am not an engineer, rocket scientist, or gunsmith for that matter, but I have been following this "peening" stuff for quite a while now and it seems like to me that if the slide was not paper thin at the recoil guide rod hole this would not be an issue. Right? If this correct, then why do they keep sending these thin slides out?

I guess I am afraid that the new slide they are sending me will be paper thin too. Is this a communications issue or are some people receiving slides that are thicker in the front?

Thanks-
Singletrackmind

 

[Guest]

singletrackmind: PM sent.

 

[JFB]

Besides being paper thin, is the hole tappered on the inside like it was made with a drill bit?

after 500 rnds, I have the very faintest of raised metal arounf the upper half of my guide hole.
I consider that I doNOT have a problem, just normal wear.  Possibly from the rod having very minor tool marks.

Now, the spring hole in may slide has 0.050" thickness around the rod hole and the bottom is milled nearly flat .

the stetch at "recoil guide insert" is to scale.  It shows a tapered drilled hole with 0.030" thickness, which seems to be the border line where peening occurs. each blue square is 0.025". if you look where the outer diameter of the tip of the "red drill bit", you can see a hint of the milled bottom at 0.050" thick that mine hase

 

[kenzo]

some slightly raised area on the top of the guide rod hole appears to be normal...i wud polish the guide rod a shoot it like i stole it during the break-in period...

BUT if it starts to look anything like the pic here http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=1173150042 specifically the pic looking down the barrel, you have a problem...

P.S. beware of PM's these mouseguns can and will function fine...some just require more TLC than others... 8)

 

[JFB]

...shoot it like i stole it...
...beware of PM's...

:-/

 

[z71bill]

Way off topic - my mind does not always function in a straight line - even when I want it to.

But all this talk about peening - reminds me of a kid we called Peenyhead - (his name was not Dick but use your imagination) - it started out as a way to make fun of him but ended up as sort of a nickname. Where did this term (peening) come from anyway?

I have only shot about 150 rounds since KT replaced my slide - I can already see slight peening. I am not too concerned - hope it does not get much worse.

 

[JFB]

... Where did this term (peening) come from anyway?

from Wikipedia

"Peening is the mechanical working of metals by means of hammer blows or by blasting with shot (shot peening). Peening is a cold work process. It tends to expand the surface of the cold metal, thereby relieving tensile stresses and/or inducing compressive stresses. Peening also encourages strain hardening of the surface metal."

Some peening is a good thing since it makes the area harder. It just becomes a problem when the process does not stablize before the hole ID gets excessive

 

[Guest]

The hole is tapered. Seems to me that the area where the springs seat is simply way too thin.

I wonder if they will eventually make this right? I really love this pistol.

Do the P11's have any issues like this?

Something makes me really uneasy about having a gun that I know has something wrong with it. With as few of rounds that have been put through mine I doubt it would fail, but like i said it just makes me feel uneasy.

Maybe I will have to buy a P11 until Kel Tec produces some slides that are machined/drilled properly.

 

[RAT76]

The hole is tapered. Seems to me that the area where the springs seat is simply way too thin.

I wonder if they will eventually make this right? I really love this pistol.

Do the P11's have any issues like this?

Something makes me really uneasy about having a gun that I know has something wrong with it. With as few of rounds that have been put through mine I doubt it would fail, but like i said it just makes me feel uneasy.

Maybe I will have to buy a P11 until Kel Tec produces some slides that are machined/drilled properly.

Keep an eye on it. When/if it looks like it may become a problem send it in for repair. The price you pay for having this much punch in this small a package is that you have to keep an eye on things. Can't just shoot it , clean it and forget it.

Things wear and need to be replaced. You want bullet proof....don't expect it from a P3AT.

Jim, who is very comfortable with these tradeoffs.

 

[adamsesq]

You could also install determine for yourself if one of JFBs washers would make you more comfortable. I'm 98% happy with the washers in my P3ATs.

-Scott

 

[kenzo]

:-/

oops! shoot it like you stole it... if it's gunna peen or break u wanna find out about it...

yeah...some poster(s) : have been sending PM's bashing Keltec..."POS this & that"...some guns may have problems, mine did, but "POS this & that" NEVER solved anything 8)

 

[Guest]

Yeah, maybe one of JFB's washers would help. It would probably help spread the stresses out away from the paper thin area around the hole.

I am quite confident that this pistol could be made 100% bulletproof/reliable. I just feel that the only way that the peening issue is going to go away is with a slide that has 1 or 2 more millimeters of metal around the guide rod hole.

I don't want to bash Kel Tec, I like their products a whole lot. They are priced just right for me. I would not describe this issue as "you get what you pay for". I think it is a bad batch of slides that need to be tossed out.

 

[RAT76]

Singletrack,  If your slide is paper thin at the edge of the hole, go ahead and bite the bullet.  You are going to have to send it back in, probably sooner rather than later.

If it has more meat at the edge then wait til it's a problem.

my 2 cents

 

[JFB]

...with a slide that has 1 or 2 more millimeters of metal around the guide rod hole....

It appears the norm should be 1 to 1.3

1.3 mm is what I have on my milled flat hole

The washers I found that can be made to fit into the slide are NOT a "fix or repair" for a bad slide.  If you have less than 1, I would go ahead and setup the credit card / slide exchange program till they send you a slide that has some meat there

 

[adamsesq]

The washers I found that can be made to fit into the slide are NOT a "fix or repair" for a bad slide.  If you have less than 1, I would go ahead and setup the credit card / slide exchange program till they send you a slide that has some meat there

JFB - how comfortable are "we" know that if we order a new slide from KT it will be improved? My gut reaction is to wait 6 more months.

-Scott

 

[Guest]

Well, after waiting for e-mail responses asking for a new slide, I called Kel Tec today and had to use the credit card to get them to send me a new one.

After less than 400 rnds, the peening is 360 degrees around rod, and I can see the tip of the spring wanting to peek out of the hole.

I also got response from gal on the phone that she "had heard nothing" about the issue.  I guess the phone reps just take orders, answer phone, etc...

If this second slide does the same thing, I guess I will just go around again.

+1 on the pm issue...consider the source as a wise friend told me once.

BTW... how do I get some of the famous JFB washers?  I may decide to keep my first slide and port it or something.  After all, one reason I bought this gun was so I could tinker and modify it with out risking a whole bunch of $$$.

 

[Guest]

The washers I found that can be made to fit into the slide are NOT a "fix or repair" for a bad slide.  If you have less than 1, I would go ahead and setup the credit card / slide exchange program till they send you a slide that has some meat there

 

JFB - how comfortable are "we" know that if we order a new slide from KT it will be improved?  My gut reaction is to wait 6 more months.

-Scott

Yeah fellows, I agree with both of you. I have now done the credit card / slide exchange. I guess we will see what shows up. I am thinking the newest slide will be paper thin too. Probably will just have to play "musical slides" for while.

I really see absolutely no point in sending them my pistol though, I can put a new slide on with no problem. No reason to be without my new pistol for 4 weeks.

I wish my slide had 1 mm of metal around the guide rod hole. Mine looks like the edge of a knife blade. I just looked at my Glock 19 and guess what, there was plenty of metal there. This is not an issue of "hey this a $289.00 gun, what do you expect".  It would not have been any more expensive to leave a little extra metal there in the machining process.

And for the flamers out there, please do not beat me up over this. I am not trying to compare a Glock to a Kel Tec. Basically I am trying to say that if Glock had left a paper thin amount of metal on the slide, it would be peening too.

I am having a harder and harder time believing that they are not aware of this issue.

 

[fmack]

I'm not accepting their statement that they are not aware of this issue. I'm on my fourth slide. The third letter I enclosed with the last return uses the term "peening". There's something else going on here. The last slide they sent me has a reasonably clean breech. I'm going to protect it with a nylon washer and shoot it sparingly. I'll continue to shoot my other slide and return it when it peens out. Eventually, I hope to get a good slide from them.
Mack

 




Yeah fellows, I agree with both of you. I have now done the credit card / slide exchange.
SNIP
I guess we will see what shows up. I am thinking the newest slide will be paper thin too. Probably will just have to play "musical slides" for while.

I really see absolutely no point in sending them my pistol though, I can put a new slide on with no problem. No reason to be without my new pistol for 4 weeks.

I wish my slide had 1 mm of metal around the guide rod hole. Mine looks like the edge of a knife blade. I just looked at my Glock 19 and guess what, there was plenty of metal there. This is not an issue of "hey this a $289.00 gun, what do you expect".  It would not have been any more expensive to leave a little extra metal there in the machining process.

And for the flamers out there, please do not beat me up over this. I am not trying to compare a Glock to a Kel Tec. Basically I am trying to say that if Glock had left a paper thin amount of metal on the slide, it would be peening too.

I am having a harder and harder time believing that they are not aware of this issue.

 

[Guest]

Some have stated that this occuring due to the power of the pistol in such a lightweight package.

I would gladly take a 20-30 gram weight penalty for a little more metal on the front of the slide.

 

[JFB]

...
I would gladly take a 20-30 gram weight penalty for a little more metal on the front of the slide.
...

Increasing the thickness 1.3mm would add a wooping 0.3grams

why that metric stuff :-/,