Peening cause FTE???

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Poppers_2-4, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008
    My P-3AT was perfect until I had a KB. I had the KB last summer and posted the pictures here. The entire gun was rebuilt and since then (I F&B'ed before I went out) , but I had problems with FTE. The first few times I took the gun out and had the FTE's I figured it was just the break-in period so I cleaned her up and went back. I notined some slight peening so I used 400 paper to even out the indention and took it out again today. Still had the FTE's and the peening looks to be getting worse.
    Here's a couple pictures. These are on the R/H side of the gun if it were pointing down range.

    PROBLEMS WITH PICTS. I'll try again.

    One of slide, one of the frame.
    Any ideas or suggestions???

    Thx
     
  2. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008

  3. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    That looks like normal wear to me but I might be wrong. Have you checked the extractor screw and tried different types of ammo?

    CJ
     
  4. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008

    It could very well be normal wear and I've missed it in the past (NOT being a smart A). The extractor screw was the first thing I went to and I tried ~ 4 different kinds of ammo.
    I searched all the FTE (this site). Mine will eject about a quarter of the way out then jam onto the next bullet trying to load. I really like this peice and wish it would run 100% like the old one did.
    By the way, the KB I had was with WWB ammo and the shell casing tore apart. I don't think it had anything to do with the KT. I'll post it again to practice.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  5. nmshooter

    nmshooter New Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    Wow. :eek:

    Suprised to see the WWB brass like that. So what you are thinking is that the ammo could have been over-loaded thus the split down the case and the crack down the barrel?

    As for the FTE issue it seems like the issues are seperate...It looks like you have a bigger fish to fry right now! :-[
     
  6. billjohnso20

    billjohnso20 Active Member

    Dec 7, 2008
    The peening you're describing is indeed normal. Mine looks the same. Just file down any roughness. Once the parts seat together this normal peening should not progress any further. As to the FTE, I don't know. Did you F&B the chamber? It could be roughness in the chamber or the chamber could have been cut wrong in the CNC process. Do unfired cases slide in an out with your fingers okay? Just some thoughts. Good luck and let us know if you figure it out.

    Peace,
    David
     
  7. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008

    Thanks, glad (kinda) to know the wear is normal.
    As for the FTE, the casing stays about three quarters inside the barrel, and the next round jams underneath the spent, exposed casing. I can then rack the slide, and remove the magazine. When I release the slide it closes on the spent casing. I can then manually eject the brass by racking the slide manually. My best was 18 continuous rounds without a problem.
     
  8. DaveNC

    DaveNC Active Member

    221
    Mar 7, 2008
    I had a similar problem a month or so ago and mine was the extractor spring was sprung. Call Kel-tec customer service and just ask for a new extractor, spring and screw. If that doesn't work you can try polishing the chamber where the cartridge rests. Just use some flitz metal polish and shine it up the best you can. You won't be able to remove all the machine marks but you can smooth up the surface which will help with your problem. Either that or you can request a new barrel in which case they might want the weapon back for service.
     
  9. Sangueffusor

    Sangueffusor New Member

    May 13, 2007
    Indiana
    There is no ejector in your frame in the second picture. Is it missing completely?
     
  10. billjohnso20

    billjohnso20 Active Member

    Dec 7, 2008
    That could be the answer.
     
  11. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008


    I took that piece out when I removed the slide so I wouldn't lose it. It's on the bench.
     
  12. bro61

    bro61 New Member

    305
    Sep 13, 2008
    The wear on the aluminum frame where the spent case ejects is normal. Not sure about the one on the slide. I would gently file that burr off the frame. I agree with what has already been said about the extraction problems. Polish the chamber and check the fit of unfired rounds. I also like to polish the hammer and interface to reduce friction.
     
  13. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008
    Well, about 4 weeks ago I took the KT to the range and never shot more than 2 in a row without a FTE. I tried 3 different mags and different ammo and still nothing. I cleaned it and went back the next day and it was the same thing. I threw the thing in my safe and forgot about it. I came across it last night and was trying to find something on disassembling the gun. It has to be the extractor. I can't budge the hex screw without heating it (which is what I'd do if I had a reason to). Before I remove the extractor and everything near it with a ball peen hammer, I was wondering if there were any more ideas.
    Quite frankly, I've about had it!
    Thanks.
     
  14. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    I'd call KT and get a new extractor and spring. Rule that out first.
     
  15. rcmodel

    rcmodel New Member

    Feb 6, 2005
    Eastern Kansas
    The FTE you are experiencing was once quite common with first generation guns. Haven't heard much about it with 2nd. gen though.

    What is happening is this.
    1. Round fires and slide & barrel begin to recoil to the rear.
    2. Barrel cam unlocks the barrel and the rear chamber area drops down at an angle.
    3. Barrel stops and slide continues rearward with the extractor pulling the empty out of the chamber.
    4. The chamber & extracting case are now aimed significantly down at an angle toward the top round in the magazine.
    5. Empty case rim hit the case mouth of the loaded round in the magazine.
    6. Empty gets hung on the case mouth and knocked off the extractor hook.

    You can probably see scuffing and even perhaps a flattened spot on the empty case where the sharp edge of the barrel hood is pushing the empty down on the loaded round in the mag.

    The cure was/is the Flyer Barrel Hood Mod.
    What you need to do is chamfer the sharp edge at the lower rear of the hood where it is dragging on the empty case and forcing it down on the round in the magazine. It was nearly 100% successful in 1st. gen guns at curing the problem you are having.

    To do the mod:
    Round the sharp edge and polish it.
    In extreme cases, you may have to go inside the chamber portion of the hood and taper it slightly. As long as you don't go in any further then where the feed ramp cut ends across from it, you lose no case support.

    [​IMG]

    BTW: I would do the barrel hood mod to any P3AT I owned, whether there was a FTE problem or not. It greatly reduces friction when the gun cycles, and increases reliability without any side effects at all. It also prevents some case damage if you reload.

    rc
     
  16. TxCajun

    TxCajun Administrator Staff Member Supporter

    Sep 7, 2004
    Texas
    I thought of the barrel hood mod but we haven't seen it needed on many 2nd gen guns. However, it certainly won't hurt anything and it may indeed be the fix, plus it only takes a couple of minutes. I'd still call for a new extractor and spring. The price is just right. :)
     
  17. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008
    I'm waiting on the extractor, spring and screw that KT is mailing me before I start removing metal.
    I have trouble stopping something once I start it!
    I'll let you know what happens.
     
  18. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008
    Everything (extractor, etc) came from KT on Monday, and I took it out today. I shot all mags with different ammo with no problems what-so-ever. I'll be taking it out Friday as well.
     
  19. Poppers_2-4

    Poppers_2-4 New Member

    44
    Jan 4, 2008
    The FTE you are experiencing was once quite common with first generation guns. Haven't heard much about it with 2nd. gen though.

    What is happening is this.
    1. Round fires and slide & barrel begin to recoil to the rear.
    2. Barrel cam unlocks the barrel and the rear chamber area drops down at an angle.
    3. Barrel stops and slide continues rearward with the extractor pulling the empty out of the chamber.
    4. The chamber & extracting case are now aimed significantly down at an angle toward the top round in the magazine.
    5. Empty case rim hit the case mouth of the loaded round in the magazine.
    6. Empty gets hung on the case mouth and knocked off the extractor hook.

    You can probably see scuffing and even perhaps a flattened spot on the empty case where the sharp edge of the barrel hood is pushing the empty down on the loaded round in the mag.

    The cure was/is the Flyer Barrel Hood Mod.
    What you need to do is chamfer the sharp edge at the lower rear of the hood where it is dragging on the empty case and forcing it down on the round in the magazine. It was nearly 100% successful in 1st. gen guns at curing the problem you are having.

    To do the mod:
    Round the sharp edge and polish it.
    In extreme cases, you may have to go inside the chamber portion of the hood and taper it slightly. As long as you don't go in any further then where the feed ramp cut ends across from it, you lose no case support.

    [​IMG]

    BTW: I would do the barrel hood mod to any P3AT I owned, whether there was a FTE problem or not. It greatly reduces friction when the gun cycles, and increases reliability without any side effects at all. It also prevents some case damage if you reload.

    rc

    [/quote]

    I've looked and read this a number of times and I was a bit confused. Your saying the sharp edges "under the top" of the barrel hood (9:00 to 3:00) and not rounding the R/L hand edges where they meet the top of the barrel hood. Is that correct? The picture was a bit confusing for me.