P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, wet

Discussion in 'P-3AT' started by Mabbus4, Sep 8, 2008.

  1. Mabbus4

    Mabbus4 New Member

    51
    Sep 5, 2008
    So i know quite an extreme question for my first post on here but i have been reviewing this site for months and have not/could not find anything about any of the kel-tec line of pistols reliability with water.  I have always heard about the hype of the glocks that can "fire underwater" or fire after they have been submerged or dunked.  Was wondering if any of you kel-tec fans would be willing to take on the experiment the challenge.  I thought it might be something good to know as i just recently got back from a canoe trip where we camped out and i would have wanted to have my p3at on me.  (Waiting for my CCW licenses in the mail and am trying to locate a p3at for sale right now)  And canoe are prone to flipping especially if you take any non-outdoors types on the trip.  So for those of you that ever carry around water, in a boat, camping, canoeing etc this could be great info to have!

    Has this ever been tested or is there info on it somewhere online already.  Also it would be cool to have the bragging rights if it goes through. ;D

    Also if someone takes on the experiment pictures would be great
     
  2. Ape

    Ape New Member

    Jul 16, 2008
    Colorado
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Doesn't sound like something I'd want to attempt or even have to try in real world applications with ANY gun! If you tip over in the water the first thing you should do is get that puppy apart and dry it off and clean and lube it! To try and fire a gun in the water sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Even if you were to not dry it out and clean and lube it could spell disaster! I don't know about anyone else but I'd HATE to have a gun blow up in my hands because it had water or other obstructions! In my book that would be classified as a negligent discharge! And I don't care what gun it was or who said it was possible. That's just taking an unneeded risk for no real world purpose. JMHO
     

  3. haugrdr

    haugrdr Super Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Jan 4, 2008
    Daytona Beach
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ectL29w_9l8[/ame]

    Mythbusters has done a couple of shows with guns underwater, not sure what type of pistol...but one was a 9mm.

    Rick
     
  4. Ape

    Ape New Member

    Jul 16, 2008
    Colorado
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Still say it has no practical use? And I still say it scares the heck out of me to think about doing that. Completely submerged or just wet, either way seems like you'd be asking for trouble. I tend to be overly safe about guns if I'm anything. Guns are great to have fun with and a comfort to have for safety but when you take them too lightly or feel over confident I think that's when it'll bite you! It took me a LONG time to get comfortable enough to carry my gun with a chambered round! And I still get a bit nervous about it at times. Guns, like cars, are a BIG responsibility that too many people take for granted and get careless with. IE: some of the rednecks I grew up with in small towns. If you ever go hunting with a hick in a small town you'll notice that most of them are very lackadasical about safety with guns and cars/trucks! They've been raised in a laid back enviroment so they get comfortable and therefor get too relaxed about safety IMO. And yes I was one of those rednecks/hicks that grew up like that. And I too for awhile got to complacent about safety because of that enviroment. Until I saw someone almost get killed by it! Luckily it opened my eyes at the right age and I've been vigilent about gun safety from that moment on.

    Granted, this is just from my experience and in no way is meant to imply that all redneck/hicks are that way. So don't yell at me for making that general statement all you redneck/hicks! lol ;-) Just trying to make my point about safety is all. ;-)
     
  5. molachi

    molachi New Member

    Jun 16, 2008
    Pensacola, Fl.
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Hope I never have to find out if my P3 will fire underwater or not. Hopefully my first thoughts would be getting myself and anyone else out of the water (if possible) and back to dry land..

    John
     
  6. JB-Norcal

    JB-Norcal New Member

    Jan 24, 2006
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Nope !
    A wet weapon is an unsafe weapon. Wet ammo is compromised. I value my life and limbs. If it were life or death I might use a firearm that was in a unreliable state, but there's risk.

    There was a SU torture test link around here somewhere involving an icey creek. I wouldn't of done it though.

    If I was on the water and there's risk of rollover, I'd drybag it.

    Once you have your CCW and carry for a while, then you'll see how even just the moisture of your body can affect your firearm.

    CCW don't mean nuthin' if it don't go BANG.
     
  7. Mabbus4

    Mabbus4 New Member

    51
    Sep 5, 2008
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Thanks for the video Rick that was pretty cool, I do understand that a wet weapon is dangerous and that if it is at all possible it is best break it apart , dry it, clean it, etc. But I would personally like to know the limitations of anything i am staking my life on. That is why i possed the question. And please don't think of it as im going to go swimming with the thing pocketing carrying, or anything like that. But if im staking my life on it, which anyone who carrys is, then limitations are always good to know, even if you never have to go to the extreme. Better safe than sorry is how i play the game.
     
  8. torrent

    torrent Well-Known Member

    Dec 18, 2006
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Well, let's not get too hasty now okay? I have been on camping trips, backpacking trips, kayaking trips, fishing trips, and a lot of other kinds of trips where my guns have fallen into the water, mud, dirt, rocks, and most of the time I ended up laying on them is said mediums. I awoke one morning after a torrential downpour and my P11 was completely submerged in a puddle because my tent failed during the night.

    As long as the barrel is free of debris and there's not too much sand or mud on/in the action it will be just fine. Have I ever had to shoot a gun underwater? No. Would I try? Yes, but it would need to be an awfully big catfish before I would go that far!

    Getting guns and ammo wet doesn't hurt anything unless you carry a cap and ball revolver. At the end of the week when you get back to civilization just switch out the old ammo and clean the gun and you should be good to go. Trust me I've done it more times than I can count with my shoes on ;)
     
  9. lop

    lop Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2008
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    I had eeen sompfin on the idiot box awhile back. They put an auto (make?) in a pool and remote fired it. They had it on a jig with a string attached. The gun fired and looked ok, but the barrel split. The water was not pushed out the barrel fast enough. The end result was that the bullet passed the water. Two objects trying to occupy the same space at the same time is ugly. Hollywood has this happening all the time. I would think that low velosity, in a short barrel would be the best bet, like a snub nose 38, but only if the Russian mob is beating you up, holding you under water and you retreave the gun from your Dead partner who is tied to the pier under water. Someone on this site did do an ammo test. He soaked .380's in water and later shot them. The federal held up the best to water, but if i recall some question was left hanging if they were also 'oil tight'. Did exposer to cleaning solvents soak in or not. Who ever did it had neat pictures and all that high tec stuff.
    I AM NOT ENDORSING SQUAT!! :cool:
     
  10. Mabbus4

    Mabbus4 New Member

    51
    Sep 5, 2008
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Thanks Torrent and Lop for the post. Those are the kind of stories/ evidence i was looking for keep up the post if any other know about the topic. That makes sense about water dispersion through the barrel. Just watched a videos on youtube of a Beretta 950 Jetfire cal .25 being fired underwater. It too also has a short barrel that might help with that dispersion.

    Heres the link. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvJX1vfQUkc&feature=related[/ame]

    Im sure someone has had experience with their kel-tecs with water, and maybe shooting it in that state, ( and no i am not endorsing doing such a thing as it could be unsafe :-?) But again its always good to know a tools limitations, that also includes the ammo limitations thanks for bring that up lop.
     
  11. Ape

    Ape New Member

    Jul 16, 2008
    Colorado
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    I still say the limitation of "that" tool is when it gets wet or dirty or muddy or what have you! If you're that worried about needing it while swimming or wallowing around in the mud then you can find out when you're in that situation IMO! It's HIGHLY doubtful any of us would even need to pull our guns and use them. Much less in some type of military combat situation? I'd say carry a good knife just in case wouldn't you? Unless you need to do it then why try it? Would you want to see how well your table saw can function when the blade isn't securly attached and the fence and table are off? It might work but is it really worth the risk to find it's limitations? NO! Seems like an easy answer for me but I tend to err on the side of caution. ;-)
     
  12. twyacht

    twyacht New Member

    58
    May 19, 2008
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    There is a Glock Mariner, version capable of firing underwater, it is stamped as such and must have LRN ammo, HP's won't work! You need the maritime spring cups changed or you'll destroy it.

    http://splodetv.com/firing-glock-underwater



    The Kel-Tec? Not practical or SAFE, submerged, I live at the coast in a salt water environment, and would never consider a "test" of this nature. Field strip it, dry it, oil it, change ammo. I would do this with any firearm.

    Now if it gets wet in rain, out on the trail, I think the results would be different as the phrase goes "keep your powder dry".
     
  13. doubloon

    doubloon New Member

    Jan 5, 2008
    Houston-ish, TX
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    I don't believe wet ammo is compromised, we're not talking about flintlocks here.

    If ammo didn't work once it got wet we'd be fighting all our wars with bows and arrows.

    I don't know if a KT pistol would have problems once wet but I would like not to think standing there in in a parking lot in the pouring down rain with someone coming at me with a knife that the best I'd be able to do is throw my PF9 at him and run.
     
  14. Ape

    Ape New Member

    Jul 16, 2008
    Colorado
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    I don't think we'd need to worry in that type of situation? I'm pretty sure it'd still go bang then! And the ammo should be fine after getting a little wet. But after a swim in a lake or pond or puddle I wouldn't hesitate to discard that ammo for the sake of peace of mind. And I'm sure if I absolutely had to fire my gun after taking a "swim" like that I would make an attempt to do so. But I highly doubt any of us will ever have to worry about that and that's why I say trying to test our guns for this and risking life and limb would be silly!
     
  15. CJP32

    CJP32 Active Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Just pick up a AK-47 pistol.  ;D May be harder to conceal but I'd bet it would shoot under almost any condition, who cares that a loaded magazine weighs more that a P3AT. Just messing around but I agree with the prior posts. I own several handguns, including a P32, G22/23/27, a 38 snubbie. I wouldn't shoot any gun under water but if I fell into a body of water and got out, I would use my weapon if needed. I think it would work short term as long as it wasen't full of water, maybe a quick shake barrel down. After any exposure to water or rain I clean and lube asap.

    CJ
     
  16. Mabbus4

    Mabbus4 New Member

    51
    Sep 5, 2008
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    That situation that doubloon just presented is the kind of stuff that i would love to know for sure.  Heavy rain, what if it was dropped when it was pouring down rain would it still fire, etc.  Again i never said that i was going swimming with this pistol,  Seems as if it is getting blown a little out of proportion.

    Ape you say you stay on the cautious side but this gun is for your safety and you need 100% reliability in it.  In the comment you made in response to Doubloon's scenario of being in a parking lot in the pouring rain against someone with a knife you didnt sound to sure for me.  This is what you wrote notice the uncertanty of the words i will make Bold.

    "I don't think we'd need to worry in that type of situation? I'm pretty sure it'd still go bang then! And the ammo should be fine after getting a little wet.

    Again you say you tend to err on the side of caution but cannot say for 100% sure that the pistol you may be staking you life on will fire in the pouring down rain, which here in florida his at least 2 times a week.  Are you pretty sure it will go bang???, Becasue My question is so maybe we can be much more sure than that, not to go swimming with a pistol.
     
  17. Ape

    Ape New Member

    Jul 16, 2008
    Colorado
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Well first off Mabbus4 you asked if it was reliable "under water" not in the rain. And here's your words exactly.......[highlight]I have always heard about the hype of the glocks that can "fire underwater" or fire after they have been submerged or dunked. Was wondering if any of you kel-tec fans would be willing to take on the experiment the challenge. I thought it might be something good to know as i just recently got back from a canoe trip where we camped out and i would have wanted to have my p3at on me. (Waiting for my CCW licenses in the mail and am trying to locate a p3at for sale right now) And canoe are prone to flipping especially if you take any non-outdoors types on the trip. So for those of you that ever carry around water, in a boat, camping, canoeing etc this could be great info to have![/highlight]

    And when doubloon made his comment, and I replied, I was just trying to say that I was "pretty positive" it wouldn't be an issue in that scenerio since cops and military test all kinds of weapons and ammo in that type of condition with real world experience all the time! Do I know that my KT wouldn't have a problem for sure with that scenerio? NO! But I still feel confident that it would! Am I going to stand in the pouring rain and test it? NO! But feel free to test it for us and let us know how it goes. ;-)
     
  18. sniper7369

    sniper7369 New Member

    145
    Aug 25, 2008
    Williston, FL
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    I know for sure, from experiences as an Infantryman, that a gun that has been SOAKED in water will still function just fine as long as you give it a shake to clear the barrel. I have also witnessed a Berretta M-9 caked in wet mud empty the magazine after the barrel was shook out.
    Now this is nothing I would do for "gee whiz" or fun, but I've seen guns function just fine under the worst possible conditions. If you take a dunking with your pistol, just shake it out and don't worry about it.

    As far as shooting under water, that is just silly. Not something you should try for any reason if you still want a gun that functions afterward.
     
  19. Ape

    Ape New Member

    Jul 16, 2008
    Colorado
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Thanks for the confirmation sniper! ;-) I assumed that would be the case for the "immediate needed use" of a gun. :cool:
     
  20. doubloon

    doubloon New Member

    Jan 5, 2008
    Houston-ish, TX
    Re: P3AT reliability when submerged, underwater, w

    Could be particularly useful for vicious fish or to impress bikini clad girls.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLDNW55c0E[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOS8lrdeEbY[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP6v8BqqqtU[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0KLQ1v41V4[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvgu3VaO8sE[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGxrXS5oA0o[/ame]

    If that's not enough, I feel fairly confident that if these penetrating oils can't render a round inert after 6 weeks that a drop in a puddle means bupkis. JMO, YMMV

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm